Shadowrun

Shadowrun Play => Shadowrun Crossfire => Topic started by: Poindexter on <02-02-16/2358:49>

Title: Is it fun?
Post by: Poindexter on <02-02-16/2358:49>
I've been playing this darn game for more than a few months now, and win or lose, I just never feel like I had a whole lotta fun.
Am I alone here?
Title: Re: Is it fun?
Post by: All4BigGuns on <02-03-16/0003:45>
Gotta concur entirely.

It's not really all that enjoyable--just an exercise in frustration.
Title: Re: Is it fun?
Post by: graven2002 on <02-03-16/1448:07>
Satisfaction might be a better word to describe what I feel after a game.
There may be fun chaotic moments, but overall (especially after a difficult win) I feel a sense of accomplishment. 
If I had to compare it to action movies:  less like Deadpool, more like John Wick.
Title: Re: Is it fun?
Post by: All4BigGuns on <02-03-16/1451:37>
It would be a much better game if it weren't set up in such a manner that no matter how well you're doing, one bad draw spells doom for the entire instance of playing.
Title: Re: Is it fun?
Post by: odd on <02-03-16/1604:15>
We have fun playing it, though All4BigGuns is right about how one card will just bone you no matter what.
Title: Re: Is it fun?
Post by: All4BigGuns on <02-03-16/1609:44>
Ya see, I don't see how anyone can have fun playing it with that tidbit. Just don't see any point in playing a game where a single bad draw means a guaranteed loss.
Title: Re: Is it fun?
Post by: odd on <02-03-16/1626:49>
We've only played 5-8 games and it doesn't happen every game.  Have you tried taking the worst out?

My wife and I were playing and the next turn we were going to win, we flipped over the event and it was "Everyone takes one at the end of the round" we knew she was going to go staggered on her turn so we were like "nooooooooooooooooooooo", but it was still fun.
Title: Re: Is it fun?
Post by: Mirikon on <02-05-16/1934:10>
In any card game, one bad draw is going to bone you. Happens in Yu-gi-oh, happens in Magic, happens in Poker. That's part of the game. If you don't enjoy it, then you simply don't have the soul of a gambler. Nothing wrong with that. Not every game works for everyone.
Title: Re: Is it fun?
Post by: TechnoGolem on <02-07-16/0738:57>
I find it fun but I will admit that it is not one of my go to games.

I think the games biggest problem is the ability to upgrade characters. In theory the idea is great but in practice it hurts the game. The problem is that the first time you do any run you will be underpowered and will probably end up losing the game. This high difficulty curve tends to drive away new players and are not willing to give it a second chance or struggle long enough to upgrade a character.

I think this game would have done better and be more enjoyable of most if they had stock runners that couldn't upgrade. This would allow for easier game balancing and would make the game easier from the start.

Title: Re: Is it fun?
Post by: graven2002 on <02-07-16/1452:30>
Lol, the character progression / customization is one of my favorite things about Crossfire.  Different strokes I guess.
This game is accommodating to variations / house rules, you could always create your own stock runners.
Title: Re: Is it fun?
Post by: Horsemen on <02-19-16/2040:40>
Win or lose.  I've always had fun with this game.  It truly reminds me of a tough Shadowrun where some times you are forced to abort because of a complication.  It feels like Shadowrun and that makes the game worth it on another level.

We will be running a couple of campaigns this year and we do expect it to be slow at first but players want that over one-offs here and there.

Preferences vary of course.
Title: Re: Is it fun?
Post by: iduno on <02-23-16/1859:48>
It probably depends on where you're coming from on gaming.

I've played it with people who don't know Shadowrun, but like board games. They enjoy it as both a deck builder and as a puzzle-based cooperative game. They're also used to the randomness that comes with that type of game, and the high chance of losing with cooperative games.

It doesn't have quite enough Shadowrun flavor to be a great Shadowrun game for me, though.

The High Caliber Ops expansion lowers the randomness (or lets you mitigate it), but increases the difficulty a bit.
Title: Re: Is it fun?
Post by: Horsemen on <02-23-16/2229:16>
I have yet to play with the HCO expansion but plan to next month.  I am looking forward to it.
Title: Re: Is it fun?
Post by: DarkSpade on <03-09-16/2039:41>
My gaming group really enjoys it.  It can be brutally hard sometimes, but the result is less "why do we keep playing this?" and more, "I don't care if it's 1am we're not leaving until we get a win!"  Wins are very satisfying.  The last expac really spiced things up and I'm looking forward to the next one.

I fully agree about one card being able to royally screw you over.  It's often a painful crossfire card, or sometimes a normal obstacle that's clearly a misprinted hard obstacle.  I'm hoping a future expansion might thin out the rough crossfires.  I wouldn't mind a bad crossfire if I knew I had an equal chance at a good one.
Title: Re: Is it fun?
Post by: Tarislar on <03-19-17/1518:49>
I just got the game last week.

10 Games in, I agree w/ what A4BG said, its really annoying when you are crushing it & 1 card means a complete 100% reversal of the game.

The Blackmarket cards mostly seem balanced by points, few iffy ones but mostly balanced.

The Objectives however are badly balanced between Normal v/s Hard in some cases but also in just plain point cost v/s difficulty in killing it.

The Crossfire deck has too much "swing" between easy v/s hard as well.  I'd like to have seen them written to be a tad less painful.

That all said, I think a minor change to the rules that would balance out some of the above is to delay the Crossfire draw by 1 round.
So a 4 person acts like 3, 3 acts like 2, & a 2 person match doesn't draw till round 4.

That small change might have not left me with a "Win", that took 14 rounds, crossfire count of 11 & 18 dead obstacles of which 11 were Hards.

Title: Re: Is it fun?
Post by: Thanos007 on <03-25-17/2104:23>
The only reason that one card crushes you is, more likely than not, you've played badly prior to it coming up. Having said that.... there is one hell uv'a learning curve. You pretty much have to know what each card can do and it helps if you play with the same people. It is not a casual game despite it's core mechanic being relatively simple. I've played/watched well over 100 games and am still finding new combos (I may be slow).

In addition the new scenarios that come with HCO ease you into it more so than just playing the Crossfire scenario over and over.
Title: Re: Is it fun?
Post by: Tarislar on <03-26-17/2044:49>
The only reason that one card crushes you is, more likely than not, you've played badly prior to it coming up.

I disagree.

The card where every wounded target is replaced by a new one is PAINFUL.   (Reinforcements?, IIRC?)
When your 2 turns away from finishing & the last 5 points of damage needed is suddenly turned into 20+ that hurts, A LOT.

Also the card where you draw 2-3 added cards & apply their affects can royally bone you (Mad Minute).

The Crossfire deck & the Objectives decks could both use a serious look at balancing.

We played again today for 4 straight losses, 3 in the 3rd scene, but 1 in the 2nd scene, because it was just that nasty a combo of cards flipped over.
Title: Re: Is it fun?
Post by: shadowcrawl on <04-18-17/0116:23>
The only reason that one card crushes you is, more likely than not, you've played badly prior to it coming up.

I disagree.

The card where every wounded target is replaced by a new one is PAINFUL.   (Reinforcements?, IIRC?)
When your 2 turns away from finishing & the last 5 points of damage needed is suddenly turned into 20+ that hurts, A LOT.

Also the card where you draw 2-3 added cards & apply their affects can royally bone you (Mad Minute).

The Crossfire deck & the Objectives decks could both use a serious look at balancing.

We played again today for 4 straight losses, 3 in the 3rd scene, but 1 in the 2nd scene, because it was just that nasty a combo of cards flipped over.

Agreed. This is perhaps one of my favorite games of all time. This is a highly rated game amongst solo players. I played this game about 60 times. I barely play other games more than 3.

That being said the Crossfire deck needs to be rebalanced. This is perhaps the only game i ever played where I looked at a card i drew and I was like "Ha! Nope. You are going into the box and will never be played again".

I wish the crossfire decks stuck with the theme that it caused chaos on both sides. There are a few cards that basically could hurt you or could help depending on the situation. Like shifting all enemies to the right. Thats cool. It could go either way. But healing all wounded enemies or doubling enemy damage is just brutal.
Title: Re: Is it fun?
Post by: Thanos007 on <08-21-17/1945:13>
The only reason that one card crushes you is, more likely than not, you've played badly prior to it coming up.

I disagree.

The card where every wounded target is replaced by a new one is PAINFUL.   (Reinforcements?, IIRC?)
When your 2 turns away from finishing & the last 5 points of damage needed is suddenly turned into 20+ that hurts, A LOT.

Also the card where you draw 2-3 added cards & apply their affects can royally bone you (Mad Minute).

The Crossfire deck & the Objectives decks could both use a serious look at balancing.

We played again today for 4 straight losses, 3 in the 3rd scene, but 1 in the 2nd scene, because it was just that nasty a combo of cards flipped over.

Agreed. This is perhaps one of my favorite games of all time. This is a highly rated game amongst solo players. I played this game about 60 times. I barely play other games more than 3.

That being said the Crossfire deck needs to be rebalanced. This is perhaps the only game i ever played where I looked at a card i drew and I was like "Ha! Nope. You are going into the box and will never be played again".

I wish the crossfire decks stuck with the theme that it caused chaos on both sides. There are a few cards that basically could hurt you or could help depending on the situation. Like shifting all enemies to the right. Thats cool. It could go either way. But healing all wounded enemies or doubling enemy damage is just brutal.

With the rules changes coming with the Prime Runners edition this should be mitigated quite a bit. It was when playing Dragonfire and they will be using the same rules set but with some different terminology. For the folks who found it too hard this should fix that.
Title: Re: Is it fun?
Post by: tequila on <08-23-17/1704:08>
After playing Dragonfire I'm really looking forward to the rule changes in the Prime Runners edition.  We played a few rounds of Crossfire after playing Dragonfire and Crossfire just felt a lot more brutal and soulcrushing.
Title: Re: Is it fun?
Post by: odd on <08-23-17/2232:24>
After playing Dragonfire I'm really looking forward to the rule changes in the Prime Runners edition.  We played a few rounds of Crossfire after playing Dragonfire and Crossfire just felt a lot more brutal and soulcrushing.

I thought that was part of the appeal  ;)
Title: Re: Is it fun?
Post by: The Tekwych on <08-24-17/1031:54>
The fact that it is so hard to beat is a big reason why we love to play it. Getting our butts handed to us is often prompts discussion and builds teamwork attend the table
Title: Re: Is it fun?
Post by: ShadowcatX on <08-24-17/1628:16>
I enjoy it very much.
Title: Re: Is it fun?
Post by: incrdbil on <08-28-17/2316:59>
I'm alrteady drawing up our Dragonfire inspired house rules to improve Crossfire. 6 player, doesnt end when one player is down..there's really room to take advantage of what Dragonfire improved on
Title: Re: Is it fun?
Post by: odd on <08-29-17/2234:17>
You can go up to six?
Title: Re: Is it fun?
Post by: incrdbil on <08-29-17/2307:22>
you can in Dragonfire. Got inspired how to do it in Crossfire from how they manage it.
Title: Re: Is it fun?
Post by: odd on <08-30-17/0648:07>
How's that work out? Fun, good?