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Figuring Out Foci Rating Benchamarks

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Van Kada

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« on: <01-21-20/0917:24> »
Hi I'm a DM for 5e Shadowrun (Homebrewed a fair bit) and I was thinking about outfitting some NPCs with some cool enchanted gear. But I didint want them running around with stuff that was ridiculous. However to my annoyance I cant seem to find any info on what the Benchmarks are for magical artefacts like Foci are in Shadowrun.
I dont remember where I heard it but I seem to recall a Rating 12 Foci is something like Excalibur. Something truely unique and insanly powerful. The kind of thing you'd have parties of mercs and corp runners chasing you day and night for. But thats it

Any help at all in how these things are graded and their power levels quantified would be greatly appricated. Thank you.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #1 on: <01-21-20/0936:30> »
Yeah, if you have a rating 12 focus probably the best thing to do is just drop it.  Even trying to sell it is going to result in someone trying to kill you for it.  You don't want that kind of trouble in your life.

Now, as for a benchmark chart... yeah you're not really going to find anything I think.  Not only is your question inherently affected by the "eye of the beholder" factor, rating isn't really the relevant factor here in gauging rarity/level of difficulty to obtain. If that is what you are interested in, then Availability is what's important.  Foci Availability codes are derived from Focus Force, although different kinds of Foci have different formulas to compute Availability.  Availability ratings, you CAN fairly objectively gauge, but I won't go into that here other than to say once you're beyond 20 or so, yeah that's generally territory where it's easier to kill someone to get rather than find someone willing to sell it.

Now, with regards to:
Quote
I was thinking about outfitting some NPCs with some cool enchanted gear

Remember that only magically capable NPCs can make use of foci. A street sam can use a katana weapon focus, but only as a katana. Its magical benefit doesn't work in his hands. If you want to give NPCs "magic gear", odds are what you want to do is use Alchemical Preparations: these are items anyone can use that have a one-shot spell in them.  Rings that turn you invisible when you put them on, potions that heal you when you drink them, etc.

Now if you are intending on using lots of mages as NPCs, then sure give them foci.  Just remember, Shadowrun ain't D&D (I mention this since you called yourself a DM).  While yes, you're absolutely right to think ahead about potential problems with giving NPCs easily looted gear, Shadowrunners generally aren't supposed to loot the dead. If you take a Foci from a dead goon, the corp/mob/yaks/whoever won't come after you because of the value of the focus.  They'll come after you for the principle of killing their goon.  One of the LAST things you want to be doing is linking yourself to your body trail by hawking stuff you stole from the dead.

RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Hobbes

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« Reply #2 on: <01-21-20/0942:07> »
Use the Nuyen cost as your guide.  Are the Mercs commonly packing hardware worth 20k?  50k?

The other thing to consider is that NPCs don't need stats, just dice pool totals.  Mage needs to have 15 dice in Spellcasting?  Done. 

Plot says the Merc team all have Invisibility on a sustain focus, done. 

Unless you enjoy creating your NPCs like they're PCs they simply don't need to follow any of the normal PC rules.  Just give them the dice pools they need to have, done.

Now if you enjoy chargen for NPCs, go nuts, use the foci costs as a general guide.

Lormyr

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« Reply #3 on: <01-21-20/0942:43> »
The only hard gauge I have personally seen in 5th ed is the stat block for Lord Serrin Sol in court of shadows. He has a weapon described as "wielding legendary power" or some such, and it is a rating 10 weapon foci.

Personally I think that foci over rating 6 should not exist, but that is also somewhat hypocritical of me since my Missions main from Chicago had several foci over rating 10.
"TL:DR 6e's reduction of meaningful choices is akin to forcing everyone to wear training wheels. Now it's just becomes a bunch of toddlers riding around on tricycles they can't fall off of." - Adzling

Hobbes

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« Reply #4 on: <01-21-20/1046:17> »
The only hard gauge I have personally seen in 5th ed is the stat block for Lord Serrin Sol in court of shadows. He has a weapon described as "wielding legendary power" or some such, and it is a rating 10 weapon foci.

Personally I think that foci over rating 6 should not exist, but that is also somewhat hypocritical of me since my Missions main from Chicago had several foci over rating 10.

I'd love to get in half the Shadowrun games you do...  ;  )

Sphinx

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« Reply #5 on: <01-21-20/1118:55> »
I agree with Hobbes; nuyen cost is a good guide. NPCs should have resources appropriate for their role. Sky's the limit for elite megacorp strike teams, but the security goon at a typical local corp shouldn't be the most expensive thing in the building.

Awakened NPCs with Enchanting skills can make their own foci. Figure out what they could reasonably create with their Artificing dice pool.

GuardDuty

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« Reply #6 on: <01-21-20/1350:27> »
Remember that only magically capable NPCs can make use of foci. A street sam can use a katana weapon focus, but only as a katana. Its magical benefit doesn't work in his hands. If you want to give NPCs "magic gear", odds are what you want to do is use Alchemical Preparations: these are items anyone can use that have a one-shot spell in them.  Rings that turn you invisible when you put them on, potions that heal you when you drink them, etc.

This doesn't give an entirely accurate portrayal of the situation.  While it is true mundanes can't use foci, items with unique enchantments can and do exist in Shadowrun that don't have to be expressed as foci.  The rules for how they work?  GM discretion.  They don't have to follow any normal rules for magic or foci if you don't want.  So there is a way to backdoor cool magic gear into your game for mundanes if you choose, I would just be hesitant to do so.

It's probably also worth noting that there used to be a type of "focus" called a spell lock that maintained a sustained spell on it's bearer, even if they were mundane.  That's one of the ways the Tir Tairngire Paladins and Tir na nOg special forces got so scary, was the special armor and whatnot with spell locks integrated into them.  They haven't existed for several editions, but you could port them in if they fit what you're looking for.

Hobbes

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« Reply #7 on: <01-21-20/1359:12> »
Spell Locks/Spell Foci can be physically carried by a mundane and the spell they are sustaining can certainly be targeted on a mundane, just the Astral Link/Bond traces back to a Mage.  No porting of magic elf stuff for elves only needed.  Just regular stupid mage sustaining tricks.

Lormyr

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« Reply #8 on: <01-21-20/1435:41> »
I'd love to get in half the Shadowrun games you do...  ;  )

Multiple groups/locations played Missions games multiple times a week in Columbus for many years. Enthusiasm has pretty much died with 6e though, hard to get a Missions game going since last fall.
"TL:DR 6e's reduction of meaningful choices is akin to forcing everyone to wear training wheels. Now it's just becomes a bunch of toddlers riding around on tricycles they can't fall off of." - Adzling

penllawen

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« Reply #9 on: <01-21-20/1456:37> »
Personally I think that foci over rating 6 should not exist, but that is also somewhat hypocritical of me since my Missions main from Chicago had several foci over rating 10.
Bloody hell, Lormyr ;)

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #10 on: <01-21-20/1457:05> »
So there is a way to backdoor cool magic gear into your game for mundanes if you choose, I would just be hesitant to do so.
Especially since that way lies 'people aiming to kill me for my neat magic stuff'. But seriously, add a Vault of Ages and you can just have HTR show up with alchemy boosts in a gun cabinet. (I already started designing an HTR unit based on that years ago.)
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Lormyr

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« Reply #11 on: <01-21-20/1520:39> »
Bloody hell, Lormyr ;)

On the one hand, just because they can doesn't mean they will. On the other, just because they didn't doesn't mean they won't.

I think you should always aim for well balanced game mechanics in design, but once that ruleset is in the wild, it's difficult to blame any player for taking what is permitted to maximal effect.

Rating 16 qi foci, rating 12 centering foci, rating 12 qi foci, rating 6 qi foci x2, rating 6 power foci. I'm sorry (that it's allowed, it shouldn't be), but I am also not sorry (let me do it and I might!). :p
"TL:DR 6e's reduction of meaningful choices is akin to forcing everyone to wear training wheels. Now it's just becomes a bunch of toddlers riding around on tricycles they can't fall off of." - Adzling

Reaver

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« Reply #12 on: <01-21-20/1716:51> »
Remember that only magically capable NPCs can make use of foci. A street sam can use a katana weapon focus, but only as a katana. Its magical benefit doesn't work in his hands. If you want to give NPCs "magic gear", odds are what you want to do is use Alchemical Preparations: these are items anyone can use that have a one-shot spell in them.  Rings that turn you invisible when you put them on, potions that heal you when you drink them, etc.

This doesn't give an entirely accurate portrayal of the situation.  While it is true mundanes can't use foci, items with unique enchantments can and do exist in Shadowrun that don't have to be expressed as foci.  The rules for how they work?  GM discretion.  They don't have to follow any normal rules for magic or foci if you don't want.  So there is a way to backdoor cool magic gear into your game for mundanes if you choose, I would just be hesitant to do so.

It's probably also worth noting that there used to be a type of "focus" called a spell lock that maintained a sustained spell on it's bearer, even if they were mundane.  That's one of the ways the Tir Tairngire Paladins and Tir na nOg special forces got so scary, was the special armor and whatnot with spell locks integrated into them.  They haven't existed for several editions, but you could port them in if they fit what you're looking for.

what you are referring to are Artifacts. Very rare, and very powerful devices that any mortal can use. But, they are not something that is "whipped up" in a lab... They are objects that are either very significant in some way. very old, or come from areas so "tainted" and the object itself so..."singular", that they are very exceptional.

The Vinculum in Aztlan (rumored, 3e)
Harley's sword (rumored, 4e)
the Muramasa blade (4e)
Mengele's Scalpel (war 4e)

are examples of artifacts in Shadowrun.
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GuardDuty

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« Reply #13 on: <01-21-20/1744:08> »
Quote
what you are referring to are Artifacts.

Although artifacts would be considered unique enchantments, I'm specifically referring to (at least) any of the primary magic sourcebooks from first-fourth edition, which all have a sub-section titled Unique Enchantments.  It basically describes your catch-all ability as the GM to create magical phenomena outside the bounds of the regular magic rules (because there are still plenty of mysteries to discover when it comes to magic), and notes that just because it functions for the purpose of the adventure doesn't mean it must continue to function under every circumstance.  Some examples: the Veil; a bottle that can trap a spirit inside, but only works when the planets are in alignment; a sword with magical properties that only function for a member of a particular bloodline; a flute that can perform the most enchanting music, but only on a summer day in County Munster.  I myself would not consider these "artifacts" unless they were particularly powerful, but they are certainly unique enchantments.

Also, I'm pretty sure one of the books addresses the idea of performing an astral quest to acquire formulae to create unique enchantments.
« Last Edit: <01-21-20/1750:23> by GuardDuty »

penllawen

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« Reply #14 on: <01-21-20/1836:56> »
I think you should always aim for well balanced game mechanics in design, but once that ruleset is in the wild, it's difficult to blame any player for taking what is permitted to maximal effect.

Rating 16 qi foci, rating 12 centering foci, rating 12 qi foci, rating 6 qi foci x2, rating 6 power foci. I'm sorry (that it's allowed, it shouldn't be), but I am also not sorry (let me do it and I might!). :p
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think you’ve done anything wrong here. In fact, I kind of admire it. But I’m also very happy I get to admire it from afar and that this ambulatory WMD isn’t at my table!