[CigarSmoker]

I have read 1 or 2 Threads that were going in the direction Cyberarms are not good in 6th Edition. So i made a char to look closer at the matter:

A Attributes 24
Body 5  Agility 8 Reaction 5( 8 ) Strength 3 Willpower 5 Logic 3  Intuition 5 Charisma 3
Edge 5 Essence  0,7

B Ressources 275.000Y
Ware:
Platelet Factories -0,2 Essence 17.000Y
Pain Editor -0,3 Essence 48.000Y
Thermographic Vision -0,1 Essence 2000Y
Smartlink -0,2 Essence 4000Y
Audio Enhancement -0,1 Essence 4000Y
Used Wired Reflexes III -125.000Y -3.3 Essence
Used Obvious Right Cyberarm (+10 Agility, +0 Strength, +0 Armor) -32.500Y -1,1 Essence

42.500Y left for Commlink,Biomonitor, Fake SIN, Licenses, Submachine Gun, Grenades, Throwing Knives, Car and so on

C Race Elf (9) [put in Edge and Agility ]

D Skills (16)
Athletics 6 (Throwing) (5 Karma)
Firearms 5 (SubmachineGuns) (5 Karma)
Close Combat 5 (Unarmed) (5 Karma)
Perception 1 (Aural)  (10 Karma)
Stealth 1 (Sneaking) (10 Karma)

Qualities:
Exceptional Attribute Agility 12 Karma

When using a Submachine Gun he rolls using his right Arms Agility 12.
Same when he throws Grenades.
Due to "Hardening"  the Cyberarm hits with 3P damage unarmed.

Used Muscle Toner IV would be 64.000Y -0,88 Essence.
So this really makes only sense for using 1 handed Weapons. And when you put the saved Nuyen into something good like Pain Editor.

[Aria]

Question whether a strength 2 arm can effectively wield an SMG one handed but I get the point

I don't think cyberarms are that bad this time round, I like the fact that you need a reasonable base stat to get the best out of them whereas 5 allowed for more dump stats

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

2 is now "average" in an attribute.  So 2 strength isn't low anymore.

[Aria]

Granted, but then we can argue whether an average person can use an SMG one handed

Just playing devil’s advocate here... I would allow it, some GMs might not

[CigarSmoker]

Granted, but then we can argue whether an average person can use an SMG one handed

Just playing devil’s advocate here... I would allow it, some GMs might not

Well for Aiming you would most likely use the left hand a little bit in real life
This build can be easily adapted for Hackers, but with lower Agility obviously. I think this is the way Cyberarms are meant to be used ... Hacker with Agility 3 can get a nice 7 Agility Heavy Pistol Right Arm for example ^^

[DigitalZombie]

Well, theres still room for some strenght upgrades I think:)

Personally I would have prefered a higher base cost of cyberlimbs, with caveat that they started at unaugmented base stats. That way the Strong troll character could have some gadgets in his arm, instead of using All capacity to get his arm to "normal".

That said, I do like that you No longer can do the 1(9) arm from 5th.

[Tecumseh]

Used Muscle Toner IV would be 64.000Y -0,88 Essence.
So this really makes only sense for using 1 handed Weapons. And when you put the saved Nuyen into something good like Pain Editor.

This is what stings, especially since there's an Essence savings as well. You'll earn more nuyen - the ¥31,500 difference isn't that large - but you won't earn more Essence. (At least, not without upgrading to alpha/beta grades, which is a LOT more nuyen.)

I'd have to go with the Used Muscle Toner IV in this case, if only for the massive boost to Stealth tests. Overall Agility isn't quite as important as 6E as in 5E - when it also informed your movement rate - but it's still very useful. Plus it opens up other possibilities, like the Ambidextrous quality (cheap at 4 karma) which creates all sorts of options.

[CigarSmoker]

Used Muscle Toner IV would be 64.000Y -0,88 Essence.
So this really makes only sense for using 1 handed Weapons. And when you put the saved Nuyen into something good like Pain Editor.

This is what stings, especially since there's an Essence savings as well. You'll earn more nuyen - the ¥31,500 difference isn't that large - but you won't earn more Essence. (At least, not without upgrading to alpha/beta grades, which is a LOT more nuyen.)

I'd have to go with the Used Muscle Toner IV in this case, if only for the massive boost to Stealth tests. Overall Agility isn't quite as important as 6E as in 5E - when it also informed your movement rate - but it's still very useful. Plus it opens up other possibilities, like the Ambidextrous quality (cheap at 4 karma) which creates all sorts of options.

True. When you throw in a Bone Density Rank 1 the one extra Physical Condition Monitor and the 3 P unarmed DV are kind of compensated.

For a Hacker a Cyberarm is more favorable "MinMax" wise. But still as long as the saved Nuyen matter the Cyberarm is a valid choice - in my opinion .

[jacx7]

Used Muscle Toner IV would be 64.000Y -0,88 Essence.
So this really makes only sense for using 1 handed Weapons. And when you put the saved Nuyen into something good like Pain Editor.

This is what stings, especially since there's an Essence savings as well. You'll earn more nuyen - the ¥31,500 difference isn't that large - but you won't earn more Essence. (At least, not without upgrading to alpha/beta grades, which is a LOT more nuyen.)

I'd have to go with the Used Muscle Toner IV in this case, if only for the massive boost to Stealth tests. Overall Agility isn't quite as important as 6E as in 5E - when it also informed your movement rate - but it's still very useful. Plus it opens up other possibilities, like the Ambidextrous quality (cheap at 4 karma) which creates all sorts of options.

Do you regain essence for stripping off Cyber- or Bioware?
I thought essence loss was permanent.

Or do you mean once you lost 1 ess with one piece of ware you can strip it off and replace it with 2 pieces that have a value of 0.5 ess loss?

edit: or are we talking all pre-gen?

[CigarSmoker]

Used Muscle Toner IV would be 64.000Y -0,88 Essence.
So this really makes only sense for using 1 handed Weapons. And when you put the saved Nuyen into something good like Pain Editor.

This is what stings, especially since there's an Essence savings as well. You'll earn more nuyen - the ¥31,500 difference isn't that large - but you won't earn more Essence. (At least, not without upgrading to alpha/beta grades, which is a LOT more nuyen.)

I'd have to go with the Used Muscle Toner IV in this case, if only for the massive boost to Stealth tests. Overall Agility isn't quite as important as 6E as in 5E - when it also informed your movement rate - but it's still very useful. Plus it opens up other possibilities, like the Ambidextrous quality (cheap at 4 karma) which creates all sorts of options.

Do you regain essence for stripping off Cyber- or Bioware?
I thought essence loss was permanent.

Or do you mean once you lost 1 ess with one piece of ware you can strip it off and replace it with 2 pieces that have a value of 0.5 ess loss?

edit: or are we talking all pre-gen?

5th Editon CRB and 6th Edition CRB are totally silent in that matter. I think it is intended that when you remove Cyberware you get a kind of "Capacity" of lost Essence - a hole that you can fill up with other ware - but the Essence does never come back.

Fluff wise you have to replace lost Tissue by using Magic or "Cloning" ... for game balance i would say that heavily cybered chars are bad enough already no need to punish them further

[Michael Chandra]

Essence holes are in additional books. If you remove ware, the essence-difference becomes the essence hole. Additional ware will first consume the essence hole.

Say you took 1 essence in ware and now are at 5. You replace with better version of 0.8 essence, so now you have 5.0 essence but an essence hole of 0.2. So basically 5.0 (5.2). For healing penalties and such, you count as 5.0. Now you add 0.5 essence of ware. You now have 4.7 essence.

(There are very expensive ways to regain lost essence, though it will not undo damage done to magic abilities.)