[Triskavanski]

Besides that, Radio shack is suppose to still be a thing in 2075.

[Herr Brackhaus]

@Herr Brackhaus

It makes sense that the Matrix has become so complex that people just don't understand how it works. It also makes some sense that there would be some resonance mixed in with the new protocols since Dodger helped make them, and he's now a mancer. Its nearly impossible to accurately model technology 60 years into the future. So going the super abstract route with interesting story possibilities is a better option than attempting to model tech that'll be an obsolete concept in 5-ish years. It also helps keep the setting interesting and less predictable.

As you no doubt will have surmised from my last post, DeathStrobe, I strongly disagree with you on that.

[DeathStrobe]

I just read Body Hunt. I didn't read it originally because it was really long and I wanted to get to the crunch.

I assume Wolf is from Wolf and Raven. And it sounds like if you can jack-in or jump-in or whatever, into a headcase that you enter a Foundation, or at least something really close to it. This leads to questions of how AI PCs can reprogram CFD nanites and also makes me wonder how overwriting and merging personalities work with multiple AIs in one headcase. It also hints that you might be able to go to the resonance realms and find erased people, which gets into all kinds of weird metaphysical questions of what is the soul.

Anyway, really good read, but really hard to follow it at first.

[Pixie]

My husband had a theory from a while back, back when 5th edition first started, that there were technomancers behind the new Matrix protocols.  When he initially suggested that one or more of the megas had found a way to tap into using the Resonance, he was scoffed at on these forums.  So...  he was mostly right.  The Foundation is, as near as I can tell, a Resonance Realm.  The only thing he seems to have been wrong about was that it wasn't MCT that led the charge.  Instead, it was NeoNET.  He figured that MCT's little gardens probably yielded some really interesting, applicable results.

[jackiepaper]

We actually had some pretty long and heated discussions about how close to existing or projected technology we wanted to stay. We have more than a few people working as freelancers that are well versed in computer science and we knew that sitting down and hammering out the exact technical details(i'm talking EVERYTHING, what languages of codes would it accept, how exactly do you "boost" the performance of something by connecting it to the Matrix, what type of CPU architecture do they use, what's the power requirement to generate or transmit megapulses of data, and so on and so on) would not only take FOREVER, but it wouldn't really offer GMs or players any tangible gameplay benefit either.

We thought it better to take a few liberties with what tech could do in the 2070s to better fit narrative concepts than straight tech. Especially since tech in the 2070s has advanced so far beyond our own that we can't accurately predict what would spring up outside of the things that modern science thinks is possible. It's like how a few Sci-fi series from the 50s and 60s imagined long-range radio communicators or cellphone type objects, but never predicted something as advanced as a smartphone(i.e. a powerful hand-held computer). In their concept of the future, technology was BIGGER not smaller. Back then, bigger was better. Even Star Trek is terrible about this, they have tiny communicators on their chests, warp drives and teleporter technology yet their computer consoles tend to blow up after their starships take a hit. We got rid of that risk IRL years ago (can you imagine if your computer just exploded any time there was a powersurge?). How clumsy and fragile, yet they are supposed to be superior to us in tech.

One of the things that was funny about SR 3E was that we had a, supposedly, technologically advanced world that didn't have a WI-FI equivalent even though that technology was becoming a HUGE at that time IRL.  We could very easily find SR going through that again if we don't stay outside of the box.

The other thing is, everyone likes to think that corporations and governments only do the things that are guaranteed to work, as if every Government agency or Megacorp thought/planned like NASA. If something is even a little bit risk you just throw it out and keep what has been proven to work 99% of the time.

The truth is that success in business is always a gamble and there are no sure things. No matter how much you plan and test and revise, something will always go wrong.  Let's not forget that Renraku took EVERY precaution when developing Deus and look at how that turned out.

Companies like Microsoft put out their Flagship products knowing full well that they could be improved (or are completely broken and in need of a recall) which is why software updates are such a common thing now. The same goes for AAA video games (where Day 1 patches are the norm now) or even the consoles themselves (how many Xbox360s did Microsoft end up replacing?). Hell the Healthcare.gov site was a NIGHTMARE to try to work that they had to retool for months afterwords and that had an entire government's worth of resources and personnel to develop and test.

So the idea here isn't, "they have no idea how the new Matrix works because it's so darn mystical, yet they get it to do stuff....somehow." 

Instead its more like,  "We built this new thing and rushed it to the public because we wanted to regain control of the Matrix. Don't worry, we tested it! It's totally safe.....though there might be a few bugs we haven't found or worked out yet.  They're incredibly rare and...mostly harmless....:cough:.... just call us if anything goes wrong. Dont. Touch. Anything." Which is pretty standard for most high tier services.

If a megacorp says they've made a completely safe and fool proof product, you might want to take that claim with a grain of salt. If all of the megacorps tell you they've made a completely safe and fool proof product, you know something is up.


Oh, and foundations definitely aren't resonance realms. The Matrix is the Matrix and the Resonance is the Resonance. They interact with each other, but they are definitely separate things. Resonance Realms are far too wily to be tamed and they shift constantly; you wouldn't be able to set up the control systems that exist within a foundation.

[jackiepaper]

I guess i should say, the Matrix and Resonance are interdependent. But they are not the same space. Like Life and Mana. All life has mana, but not all life is magical and every strange place in the real world can't be a metaplane because...you know., they're in the real world.

[Nath]

One of the things that was funny about SR 3E was that we had a, supposedly, technologically advanced world that didn't have a WI-FI equivalent even though that technology was becoming a HUGE at that time IRL.

The first version of the 802.11 protocol was released in June 1997, at which point companies were to start designing equipment that would implement it. It wouldn't actually be called "Wi-fi" before the release of 802.11b in September 1999.

Shadowrun third edition was released in January 1998, and considering the time requirement for printing and shipping, I'd guess it had to be fully written or close enough by Q3 1997.

Then in January 2000, extended rules from the Matrix book (again, likely written a few months before) did introduce cellular and radio links, which totally allowed wireless operations for cyberdecks. The only drawbacks were a vulnerability to jamming and a slower I/O speed (respectively 100 and 200 Mp per Turn, instead of 300 for a regular landline - if SR3 got something wrong about modern computer technology, it rather lies in filesize and data transfer speed).

[TwilightVulpine]

There are a few things that I miss from SR4 that so far I didn't see addressed in SR5 in general or Data Trails.

Making your own Programs. While Matrix Actions now don't need a particular program, it feels very fitting for a Decker to have their own signature programs with unique twists. Its even mentioned that it is something the Software skill can do in SR5 but I didn't find the rules for it.

Getting Hosts, like you could buy your own Nexus, some chill place you can call your own in the Matrix, where the GODs won't bother you unless you leave a digital blood trail.

Simsense Hacking. If there is one setting spot that was barely explored in Shadowrun was this. Simsense is considered ubiquitous enough that it is used as a mass entertainment form, but it doesn't seem to be focused on besides of BTLs and Cybercombat. You don't need to always cave someone's brain in to do fun things, it's literally a connection to someone's feelings. Unwired has a small blurb about how subliminal simsense messages were used by corps until (and likely after) it was made illegal, but even that had no rules for it. Instead of a Data Bomb, a decker could plant a subtle suggestion in their files to make someone more cooperative, or scared, even within cold-sim limits. It would be an interesting form of prep work. The closest thing we got here was the Tantrum program, but even that could be just one variant of many. It also had PAB Brainwashing, which wasn't subtle in any way or form.

[jackiepaper]

One of the things that was funny about SR 3E was that we had a, supposedly, technologically advanced world that didn't have a WI-FI equivalent even though that technology was becoming a HUGE at that time IRL.

The first version of the 802.11 protocol was released in June 1997, at which point companies were to start designing equipment that would implement it. It wouldn't actually be called "Wi-fi" before the release of 802.11b in September 1999.

Shadowrun third edition was released in January 1998, and considering the time requirement for printing and shipping, I'd guess it had to be fully written or close enough by Q3 1997.

Then in January 2000, extended rules from the Matrix book (again, likely written a few months before) did introduce cellular and radio links, which totally allowed wireless operations for cyberdecks. The only drawbacks were a vulnerability to jamming and a slower I/O speed (respectively 100 and 200 Mp per Turn, instead of 300 for a regular landline - if SR3 got something wrong about modern computer technology, it rather lies in filesize and data transfer speed).

I won't argue that,mostly because my point was that wifi was widespread by the early 2000s IRL but it didn't become a major SR tech until the 2060s. That's a pretty big gap.

I don't really know why we didn't include rules for making your own programs. The function of cyberprograms is very different in 5E so determining thresholds and options would be weird.
I tried to throw some simsense hacking into the AI Abilities but I do have plans for some TM abilities that affect simsense in the future.

As far as renting hosts go, that's a big can of worms.I don't know why we didn't include rules for it.  You'd definitely need a legitimate Sin, a clean criminal record, and a business license.

To be honest, I'd treat a host like a separate lifestyle cost and use the guide for AI homes as a price guide. Anything above rating 7 would require Corp status or some serious connections.

Also, you'd still have to hack the door to the foundation, since the info on how it works is legally protected and entering the for foundation voids your contract. You'd still be able to call up files from the archive though since you'd have ownership clearance. They would just come up with a matrix action though, you wouldn't actually go into the archive.

[Herr Brackhaus]

How is ownership of a host dealt with, since matrix objects can only ever have one owner?

Every device, persona, host, and file has an owner. This is a special relationship that offers special privileges. Each Matrix object can only have one owner, but you can own as many Matrix objects as you like.

[Pixie]

How is ownership of a host dealt with, since matrix objects can only ever have one owner?

Every device, persona, host, and file has an owner. This is a special relationship that offers special privileges. Each Matrix object can only have one owner, but you can own as many Matrix objects as you like.

I'm not saying that the answer is obvious, but if it was my table, I'd say that corporations count as owners.  That said, it does make for some gummy situations with regards to the owner-specific matrix actions being performed by spiders and such.

[jackiepaper]

How is ownership of a host dealt with, since matrix objects can only ever have one owner?

Every device, persona, host, and file has an owner. This is a special relationship that offers special privileges. Each Matrix object can only have one owner, but you can own as many Matrix objects as you like.

For legal purposes, the company would be the "owner" of the host. For functional purposes, there's a system admin (every host would have one) who should have ownership authority (4 marks) in the host. This person is usually a spider or decker, depending on the type of host, though it could just be someone in the company that is just "tech savvy" enough to change the icons now and then. Either way this person has the ability to set the parameters the host uses when assessing users and inviting marks.

For some places this could be more closely monitored (like a secured facility host where the spider checks everyone personally) or it could just be some basic protocols like stores would have (assess customer citizenship and credit status, invite mark/refuse mark, pull consumer shopping profile, provide recommendations based on previous purchases) where patrol IC is left to watch the fort and the admin is only called in for emergencies.

Anyone could be given 3 marks by the admin (or more likely host itself since the admin would program the host to automatically recognize employees as authorized users)  and do almost everything though. (the exception being  the change icon action, but if they really HAAD to do that they could just make a copy of the file using the edit action and then change the icon of their copy and delete the original.)

Hope that helps.

[Novocrane]

That said, it does make for some gummy situations with regards to the owner-specific matrix actions being performed by spiders and such.

Those spiders would run the corporation's persona. Which is great for the faceless and replaceable thing they might have going. Doubly so if anyone can unquestionably sort out the concept of using host's "no distance based Noise" thing to keep cyberdecks somewhere impenetrable and use spiders from all over the world.

[Grinder]

Finally, though, I'm saddened to see the continuation of a trend I've noticed where more advanced rules from previous editions no longer make the cut in the 5th Edition core books.

First weapon modifications were mostly omitted from Run Faster (potentially, and this is all speculation on my part, in favour of demo rules that I don't personally know anyone really wanted and/or are using much), then the rules for advanced interaction with the Astral realms, extended information and rules on initiation, and rules for spell design from Street Magic didn't make it into Street Grimoire, and now finally Data Trails has no trace of the advanced software rules, no technomancer streams or paragons (though this may be addressed in a PDF book I personally think this is a poor choice of strategy deviating from SR4), or all the nifty simsense gear from Unwired, just to name a few.

That's a trend I don't understand. It can't be because of a lack of knowledge, seeing how many freelancers and staff members have been around in SR4 times. If it was a decision based on plan, it needs to be communicated/ promoted much better.

[Triskavanski]

Finally, though, I'm saddened to see the continuation of a trend I've noticed where more advanced rules from previous editions no longer make the cut in the 5th Edition core books.

First weapon modifications were mostly omitted from Run Faster (potentially, and this is all speculation on my part, in favour of demo rules that I don't personally know anyone really wanted and/or are using much), then the rules for advanced interaction with the Astral realms, extended information and rules on initiation, and rules for spell design from Street Magic didn't make it into Street Grimoire, and now finally Data Trails has no trace of the advanced software rules, no technomancer streams or paragons (though this may be addressed in a PDF book I personally think this is a poor choice of strategy deviating from SR4), or all the nifty simsense gear from Unwired, just to name a few.

That's a trend I don't understand. It can't be because of a lack of knowledge, seeing how many freelancers and staff members have been around in SR4 times. If it was a decision based on plan, it needs to be communicated/ promoted much better.

Or if they do make the cut, its usually some of the worst rules of the previous edition (In the case of a lot of different exotic weapons) or the rules get rebalanced multiple times, such as the changeling.