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[SR5] Data Trails?

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Fedifensor

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« Reply #180 on: <05-28-15/0019:18> »
@DeathStrobe: I added Garbage In/Garbage Out to address the software deficit, actually.  Since I didn't actually sit down and write a chapter, it's not something that I could address on a larger scale, but software and EWAR are on the top of my "needs more love" list.
Garbage In/Garbage Out is pretty amazing.  If you can stealth around long enough to get 3 marks on a Spider, he's toast.  You use Garbage In/Garbage Out to turn his Data Spike action into a Jack Out action.  Then you just use an Attack action to edit the file you're after, and laugh yourself silly as the Spider gets hit with Dumpshock.

Triskavanski

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« Reply #181 on: <05-28-15/0028:29> »
I'm not sure where you're seeing nerd rage at all here Pixie, unless its nerd rage is anything but unquestionably accepting something and not trying to ask questions of why something was done a certain way.

For me, I want to know why Data Trails has the ToC it does. I don't like it, and it doesn't follow the more detailed ToCs of the previous books. And why the book couldn't include Technomancers. If it isn't content available to be added to the book, then what is it? Especially when Data Trails is the smallest of the books that have come out, beyond the typical 10-30 page splat books.
Concepts are great, but implementation sucks. Why not improve it?

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DeathStrobe

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« Reply #182 on: <05-28-15/0051:34> »
I'm not sure where you're seeing nerd rage at all here Pixie, unless its nerd rage is anything but unquestionably accepting something and not trying to ask questions of why something was done a certain way.

For me, I want to know why Data Trails has the ToC it does. I don't like it, and it doesn't follow the more detailed ToCs of the previous books. And why the book couldn't include Technomancers. If it isn't content available to be added to the book, then what is it? Especially when Data Trails is the smallest of the books that have come out, beyond the typical 10-30 page splat books.

My personal assumption is they needed to do layout quickly to get the print version ready for Origins. Its also why I think the TM section was cut. It seems like everytime CGL gets a book ready for the convention season that it ends up having a lot more problems than normal, like Street Grimoire. I personally didn't mind all the flaws of SG, just because I have to house rule and interpret rules all the time. I am however a bit annoyed that the TM section isn't in Data Trails. Its a bit difficult to house rule and interpret things that aren't there.

I'm also not sold on a TM pdf source book. Those are usually less than 30 pages. I don't think that'll be enough to cover everything. Shadow Spells wasn't enough to cover all the missing parts of SG. So I'm actually expecting the TM book to be...serviceable but lacking.

Tarnus

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« Reply #183 on: <05-28-15/0558:44> »
Someone on Catalysts writing team sure appears to hate Germans, otherwise I can't really explain myself the bizarre decision to call the SK-Grid ÜberWelt. Because a German company with a single all powerful leader who most likely considers himself better then humans certainly doesn't wake any questionable connotations. Seriously, this wouldn't have flown with any marketing department in the world and especially not one as meticulously managed as SK.
(Though to be fair, for some bizarre reason someone made the weird decision to give multiple German police corps the initials SS. Those corps also the reputation to be highly racist, so apparently weird Nazi associations appear to have a history here and marketing in SR corps seems to be mostly concerned with smoking crack.)

Liebesekretär. No. Just no. For none-native speakers it might not be obvious, but for us this word is so obviously constructed by someone who has never spoken more german than maybe, at best, in a class at college a dozen years ago. It's highly akward and again, not something a German company would ever name anything.

Kincaid

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« Reply #184 on: <05-28-15/0653:46> »
I lived in Frankfurt aM for a bit when I was in graduate school and I admit to looking at Liebesekretär and thinking about changing it.  Ehestifter (eqv.) just doesn't convey as well to an English-speaking audience.
Killing so many sacred cows, I'm banned from India.

Tarnus

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« Reply #185 on: <05-28-15/0716:35> »
I lived in Frankfurt aM for a bit when I was in graduate school and I admit to looking at Liebesekretär and thinking about changing it.  Ehestifter (eqv.) just doesn't convey as well to an English-speaking audience.

I get that, but I think putting an additional s in there (Liebessekretär) would work wonders for a start. That would solve the akward gendering, since Liebe in that context would be equivalent to Dear for women (with Lieber for men), while Sekretär is the male form of the word (the female being Sekretärin).
Another option would be Liebesbote ("messenger of love"), while admittedly old fashioned is an existing word (though I get why you might want to stay with Sekretär in that case)..

Pixie

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« Reply #186 on: <05-28-15/1105:30> »
I'm not sure where you're seeing nerd rage at all here Pixie, unless its nerd rage is anything but unquestionably accepting something and not trying to ask questions of why something was done a certain way.

So you didn't read the posts by Shirelagel, taeo, and Sandorian?

Kincaid

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« Reply #187 on: <05-28-15/1120:05> »
@DeathStrobe: I added Garbage In/Garbage Out to address the software deficit, actually.  Since I didn't actually sit down and write a chapter, it's not something that I could address on a larger scale, but software and EWAR are on the top of my "needs more love" list.
Garbage In/Garbage Out is pretty amazing.  If you can stealth around long enough to get 3 marks on a Spider, he's toast.  You use Garbage In/Garbage Out to turn his Data Spike action into a Jack Out action.  Then you just use an Attack action to edit the file you're after, and laugh yourself silly as the Spider gets hit with Dumpshock.

Or you can make someone "Reply All" with a sensitive email (eqv.), swap key inputs (making keypads inaccessible to most), have a PANICBUTTON! send an "all-clear" message.  Really, the idea was to make it attractive enough to at least get some deckers to think about Software and give TMs a little love from the Matrix action side of things.  Use today's common operating systems as a guideline.  I can delete something, but I get a prompt asking me if I want to save changes (which would be two keystrokes).  On the other hand, if someone tinkered with my phone so my boss received all the texts I send to my wife (I select her as a recipient with a single keystroke)--well, that would get weird.

With 3 marks in a Matrix combat situation, pretty much whatever you do is going to go over well, and GI/GO can make for some really amusing/potent combat scenarios.  Its out-of-combat applications (imo) are really where it can shine.
Killing so many sacred cows, I'm banned from India.

SmilinIrish

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« Reply #188 on: <05-28-15/2037:45> »
Yes, that stuff works.  One of my wife's work friends took her iPhone and programmed a shortcut so that "LOL" typed out "I am a lesbian".  hilarity ensued. 
Speech  Thought   Matrix/Comms

Shirelagel

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« Reply #189 on: <05-29-15/0210:00> »
Pixie, I am hating only the 1 page of echoes. It was a waste of space that is quite possibly the worst section of any gaming book I have ever seen. Its reprinting duplicate powers under different names and making expensive powers that apply to rules that aren't in the game are a couple pretty big sins in my book.

The rest of the book is great. The host details and foundation stuff is great. The new complex forms are awesome. The new programs are sweet. The mods and dongles are an excellent addition. The specialized decks are super useful for a street level game. And AIs seem like they decently well balanced as PCs. And examples! I love examples of game play. Overall, an excellent book.
« Last Edit: <05-29-15/1520:50> by Shirelagel »

Top Dog

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« Reply #190 on: <05-29-15/1920:39> »
So I was looking at shinies to buy for my magician, and I was wondering: how expensive are commlink apps? I can't find a cost listed anywhere.

Shirelagel

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« Reply #191 on: <05-29-15/2008:43> »
I couldn't find it either. I figured that the apps are covered by your lifestyle. I'd limit players to device rating apps running at once.

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #192 on: <05-29-15/2026:42> »
I'll be honest, y'all lost me on the Foundation. I intensely dislike the "new" concept of a mystical Matrix; I can get behind resonance being an x-factor much like magic, but basing the entire worlds digital infrastructure on something that not even the designers seem to understand is something I just can't get behind. To me, it feels like a cop-out, especially since the technology of Shadowrun has always been very grounded in what might be possible. Data Trails takes the Foundation a step too far for me, personally, because I can no longer associate a sense of realism with the Matrix, unlike in previous editions where the Matrix was always the evolution of our very own internet and was (largely) based on actual computing principles. As someone who has always appreciate the level of detail invested in Shadowrun, perhaps in spite of consequences like the relatively steep learning curve for all things Matrix, this is not a direction I am fond of.

That being said, I do appreciate the efforts by the writing team on a lot of the actual rules; if I just choose to ignore that whole "no one really knows how the Matrix works" aspect that I strongly dislike, the rules for deep dives seem very promising, and I really appreciate the clarification on Patrol IC. While I felt the section on commlink gear was somewhat underwhelming (especially the fact that there was little love for riggers and their RCCs, which can run cyberprograms but can't accept cyberdeck modules?), the last section on Mastering the Matrix was absolutely fabulous in terms of summarizing the Matrix 3.0 concepts and making them easier to understand and implement in an adventure.

Finally, though, I'm saddened to see the continuation of a trend I've noticed where more advanced rules from previous editions no longer make the cut in the 5th Edition core books.

First weapon modifications were mostly omitted from Run Faster (potentially, and this is all speculation on my part, in favour of demo rules that I don't personally know anyone really wanted and/or are using much), then the rules for advanced interaction with the Astral realms, extended information and rules on initiation, and rules for spell design from Street Magic didn't make it into Street Grimoire, and now finally Data Trails has no trace of the advanced software rules, no technomancer streams or paragons (though this may be addressed in a PDF book I personally think this is a poor choice of strategy deviating from SR4), or all the nifty simsense gear from Unwired, just to name a few.

All in all, I feel that the core supplements for 5th Edition have been solid offerings in the grand scheme of expanding the basic rules for SR5, but as someone who enjoyed playing 2nd Edition and immersing myself in 3rd and 4th I think the potential these books had to be so much more was a sorely missed opportunity.

For what it's worth, I'll keep buying the books as long as you keep writing them, and I want to make sure to note that I don't have anything against the writers here at all. I just really hope the direction for the entire line gets taken a good, hard, long look at, because I personally feel streamlining the play experience is starting to cut into the vastly rich and complex setting I've come to love (and sometimes hate, I'll be the first to admit) over the years.

/rant

Novocrane

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« Reply #193 on: <05-29-15/2129:07> »
I'd limit players to device rating apps running at once.
Half that; page 55.

DeathStrobe

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« Reply #194 on: <05-29-15/2206:28> »
@Herr Brackhaus

It makes sense that the Matrix has become so complex that people just don't understand how it works. It also makes some sense that there would be some resonance mixed in with the new protocols since Dodger helped make them, and he's now a mancer. Its nearly impossible to accurately model technology 60 years into the future. So going the super abstract route with interesting story possibilities is a better option than attempting to model tech that'll be an obsolete concept in 5-ish years. It also helps keep the setting interesting and less predictable.