[Hobbes]

deffo need an autoinjector

here he is with Novacoke, Psyche and custom designer drug (warrior + shock and awe 2) running at the same time.

Custom Drugs are sadly not allowed for missions play.

"Can I customize drugs in Missions? (Chrome Flesh, pg. 190)
The rules for customizing drugs are beyond the scope of Missions."  - P. 45

[Michael Chandra]

Detox doesn't mitigate stun damage right?

If you Detox before the Crash the Drug effect stops, the Crash including the Stun damage, never happens.  Unless it's a random duration, really never an issue.

Hrm I need to find my rulebook to check that after the honeymoon. Sounds like badly written that way. I always thought it was just things like nausea you could end afterwards, not cast beforehand.

[adzling]

yeah that seems like an over interpretation

[Hobbes]

Then when does the crash damage hit?  The spell doesn't specify.  When the spell is cast or when it would normally hit?  Because then Detox becomes one heck of a combat spell in very specific situations if the crash damage still happens as I don't think Detox is resisted. 

I read it as all the drug/toxin effects simply stop if the threshold is met.  Specifically damage already taken isn't healed though. 

Plus what would be the point of using Detox to clear out Toxins/Poisons if it didn't stop damage that hasn't happened yet?  Seems to be the RAI of the spell when used as a curative. 

[adzling]

yeah i dunno tbh.

i should put it to the errata team.

i think the potential loophole here is that because the force required is = to the dv of the drug (and positive drugs have no DV) then it make it an auto success at force 1 for the positive effect.

but again, tbh im not sure.

what would you do to balance this a bit better Hobbes?

[Hobbes]

You've got the right of it.  Boost Drugs are cleared with one hit, increase the threshold for removing "Helpful" drugs would be probably the right thing.  Addiction Threshold if you want a light nerf, DV of the crash if you want a heavy Nerf?  Dunno, you probably don't want to Errata every published and future drug so pick something already given.

And if you go with DV of the crash drugs like Novacoke (and several others) are still cleared with a single hit since they don't do damage.

*shrug*  Literally I'm the only person I've ever seen with a Juicer character at a Convention that makes heavy use of the Drug rules so it's tough to say where all the loopholes are based on a single character.

[adzling]

i think using the addiction threshold could work well and makes using a high addiction drug like kamikaze a lot more difficult to use detox on.

i'll put it to the errata team and see what they say.

any other input on juicers we should be aware of?

thanks

[Hobbes]

any other input on juicers we should be aware of?

thanks

It's still more balanced, and far less flexible than Quickening, which it is directly comparable to.  And far less common. 

Which would you rather have in your dystopian cyberpunk world the guy with the Hello Kitty backpack full of party favors and pick me ups or the guy in the Van juggling a dozen sustains?

 Just sayin'. 

[adzling]

Quickening is broken. No doubt.

[Michael Chandra]

Plus what would be the point of using Detox to clear out Toxins/Poisons if it didn't stop damage that hasn't happened yet?  Seems to be the RAI of the spell when used as a curative.

All the side-effects that give penalties for a while. Nausea etc. "Detox relieves the side effects of a drug or poison." It says nothing there about ending the drug's effect, or preventing the crash damage (which isn't a symptom, it's damage). It relieves the side effects, which we know are things like Nausea for X time. So as far as I read this, it's simply 'use drugs, it ends, get hit by side-effects, use Detox to have a clear head again'. And we're not even going into poisons there, which tend to come with all kinds of ugly effects.

[Hobbes]

If a target still dies from poison/toxin after the successful cast of a Detox spell I question what the spell is intended to do.  "The Mage successfully cures the poison, take another 6S of Poison damage..."  We can quibble over what is meant by "Side Effects"?

I guess I don't like the idea that the Niche curative spell has some poorly defined sub-Niches that it doesn't actually work for.  Seems subjective to have some effect on a character and instead of simply removing that effect, just specific bits and pieces of that effect are removed with no clear indication of when the remaining effects will trigger or end.  Seems like a whole lot of GM calls when the simpler way is "If the spell is successful all the things for that drug/toxin/poison are gone."  Buffs, Debuffs, more damage, drug interactions or overdose if additional drugs are taken...all seems unnecessarily ticky-tacky and subjective to say this bit keeps ticking but that bit doesn't. 

YMMV and all that.

[Marcus]

"Detox does not heal or prevent damage done by toxins," -Core 288.
I was about to post I think it should be the spell used to save folks from the consequence and then i went and re-read the spell.
As far as RAW is concern it seems very clear it's not intended to save you from any damaging effects. It's seems clear it is intended to the perfect hang over cure. It won't stop you from taking damage if there was some involved but it will clear your head right away. 

[Lormyr]

That is how I read it as well Marcus.

But that does leave Hobbes with the very solid point of the spell being next to useless. You are better off getting good first aid after the crash.

[Hobbes]

"Detox does not heal or prevent damage done by toxins," -Core 288.
I was about to post I think it should be the spell used to save folks from the consequence and then i went and re-read the spell.
As far as RAW is concern it seems very clear it's not intended to save you from any damaging effects. It's seems clear it is intended to the perfect hang over cure. It won't stop you from taking damage if there was some involved but it will clear your head right away.

My interpretation of that is so you can't cast Detox and then drop Neurostun grenades at your feet and take no damage.  Detox is not a Poison Damage shield.

It's poorly worded, but I'm trying to give the writer the benefit of the doubt and assume the cure poison spell is actually intended to cure poison.

To put it in a computer gamey way:  Target has a [CRAM] or [NEUROSTUN] effect on them.  Mage casts Detox and hits the required threshold.  [CRAM]\[NEUROSTUN]\[WHATEVER] ends.  Magically all of that one dose of whatever it was Poison, Drug, Toxin, ends.  More doses still work normally.  If the Target didn't have any Poison, Toxin, Drug running then the spell does nothing.  If the Target is under the effects of multiple Drugs, Toxins, Poisons, then the net hits of the spell are compared to individual thresholds and resolved.

More or less my reading of RAI.  Wouldn't bother too much with RAW because then the spell doesn't work depending on your reading of "...doesn't prevent damage...". 

[Marcus]

I think your point is pretty legit Hobbes, and I agree RAW the spell is pretty useless.
So couple different scenarios, as Steet Lethal is try to make narcojet cool again, we start with that.
So we can't detox up and then get Narcojeted, and not take stun damage, and we can't get with Narcojet and then use detox to remove the effect?

next

Some kid gets exposed to k12, we some how manage to restrain said kid who's now as about as fast and strong as decent street sam, and we hit with detox, do we save the kid however many level unsoakable stun damage that may very well kill said kid? does detox trigger said damage?

To me it looks like heal or stabilize is gonna get you a lot more for your money then detox.

Hobbes your saying it should remove the narcojet damage and prevent the k12 damage?