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buying preparations on the open market

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RHat

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« Reply #60 on: <08-13-13/0538:33> »
Otherwise, you could have someone arguing that each screw, plate, and so on in a drone could be prepared with a manaball preparation, just fly the drone into a crowd of enemies, and set them off one after another. Going along that road leads to massive brokenness.

And that's different from getting the drone to carry in a bunch of prepared marbles how?
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Mirikon

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« Reply #61 on: <08-13-13/0544:39> »
Because the drone could do that AND carry in the prepared marbles. And a drone carrying a bag of marbles makes a lot bigger impression than a simple fly-spy drone, yeah?
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DigitalZombie

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« Reply #62 on: <08-13-13/0707:33> »
The crossbows have internal magazines, and I dont think a bolt would be destroyed by firing it, making contact preparation viable against opponents in combat.

While I think alchemists easily could sell their preparations to customers, I dont think they would be willing to part with their more aggresive spells. It would really ruin your day, having to explain to lone star why those 12 kids killed by an acid wave with your astral signature, has absolutely nothing to do with you.

Mirikon

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« Reply #63 on: <08-13-13/0712:37> »
You still have to get it in the magazine, DZ. And even so, this is one of those cases where you smack the perpetrator with a phonebook until they stop being stupid, because otherwise the corpsec can do the same thing to you, and they aren't going to care about the fact that some 'terrorists' got geeked by a crossbow bolt with a Fireball spell on it. The game is deadly enough as is.
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DigitalZombie

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« Reply #64 on: <08-13-13/0756:03> »
@Mirikon I do think its possible to make the preparation and load it immidiatly after in the magazine. Same with making other contact preparations and puttiing them in a bag or another container. While I also agree that misusing the system should be dicouraged. I dont think that helping your NAN low tech adept in the party with a flamethrower spell once in a while is breaking the game. You have to remember preparations are weaker than normal spells. Wheras a normal spell would be spellcasting+magic [force] a preparation is Alchemy+magic [force] vs force AND then its force+ potency[force] for the actual effect.
And a crossbow is an inferior weapon most of the time, I like it that it has a niche.   

Mirikon

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« Reply #65 on: <08-13-13/0815:38> »
The prohibition against making two attacks in the same action would still apply. Now, if you could manage to load the bolt without touching it (since contact preparations go off regardless of who the next living being to touch it is) then in your example, I'd say you would have to make the crossbow attack roll as normal to hit the target, but you wouldn't get to do damage with the crossbow. If it hit, then you make the spellcasting test to see if the spell takes effect, and so on.

Honestly, though? I'd still be against it, for a couple reasons. First, adepts in general don't need much in the way of help. They can pretty fragging awesome at the things they do. Second, a real low-tech NAN adept would go with a bow, not a crossbow, since that's what his ancestors used. And you can get nasty things already with a bow adept. Third, that's like saying "Bob wanted to play a mundane human who doesn't use guns or ware, so let's give him a little something so he doesn't feel bad". One of the things this edition is big on (and that I really agree with) is that choices have consequences. That low-tech NAN adept CHOSE to play that way, so he should suffer the consequences for doing that. Not saying to go out of your way to make his life hell, but contorting the rules into easily broken shapes so he doesn't feel like he's failed at life is just out. You're right that a crossbow is an inferior weapon to guns for most people. But if you choose to go that route, then it is your own damn fault that you're inferior to the guy with the assault rifle, and I don't feel sorry for you, end of story.
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ZeConster

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« Reply #66 on: <08-13-13/0822:40> »
I think the very process of traditional alchemy, or something like cooking or perfume making which is certainly creative.
That definitely sounds like it could work, plus it would add some nice roleplaying flavor (heh ;)) to visiting your local street doc: "Your healing potions taste disgusting - can't you add some strawberry flavoring or something?" "It's supposed to taste like that, or it won't work!"

Mirikon

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« Reply #67 on: <08-13-13/0835:14> »
Except that healing spells have to be command trigger, but otherwise, yeah. I could definitely see potions of Armor, for instance. And I can definitely see some alchemist mixing up a potion of Flamethrower as a trap.

Though my mystic adept with alchemy typically uses onmyudo charms, there are plenty of ways to make it work. You just have to expand your thinking.
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ZeConster

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« Reply #68 on: <08-13-13/0839:18> »
Except that healing spells have to be command trigger, but otherwise, yeah. I could definitely see potions of Armor, for instance. And I can definitely see some alchemist mixing up a potion of Flamethrower as a trap.
Huh... you're right. That just seems silly, especially since with regular casting, you need to be physically touching the target for health spells.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #69 on: <08-13-13/0854:43> »
The prohibition against making two attacks in the same action would still apply.
Technically the rule is no two attack actions in one action phase. So a Contact Trigger combined with ammunition might be legal, since you do not use an action of any kind to trigger it. You throw, and that attack results in taking damage in two ways, just like contact toxins on a sword. However, it's extremely tough to prepare and to manage. Just imagine rolling a critical glitch and suddenly your magazine breaks off and the bolts scatter on the floor and hit your teammates.

Also, where do you put the lynchpin? An engraving in the head, or in the bolt itself? The second would get damaged, the first requires engraving which might damage the air balance and result in a dice penalty. And so on and so forth.

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As for Healing Potions: They wouldn't work as potions, yes, but you could put some Heal charms on the guards. Add magewire, or whatever it was called, so that the Alchemist has Line of Sight on the entire facility and he can trigger the Heal charms when needed in combat.
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Mäx

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« Reply #70 on: <08-13-13/0914:05> »
The prohibition against making two attacks in the same action would still apply.
There are no "two attack actions" only one that just happens to have have multiple effect, exactly the same as a arrow head or blade dipped in poison has.
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Crunch

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« Reply #71 on: <08-13-13/0917:38> »
Let's not open up that kettle of fish.

I'm not actually sure that I'm against allowing preperations in a thrown form or on arrows (I would certainly be fine with a command triggered version used by the alchemist). What I am sure of is that I would rule that the preperation goes off at first contact, and thus does no damage from the transmission medium. As there's no delayed contact action the arrow doesn't have time to penetrate before it goes poof.

Mäx

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« Reply #72 on: <08-13-13/0923:10> »
As there's no delayed contact action the arrow doesn't have time to penetrate before it goes poof.
Does it say somewhere in the book that the lynchpin is destroyed when the spell goes of?
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Slithery D

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« Reply #73 on: <08-13-13/0924:57> »
As I said, chalk or marker on a floor tile could prepare a nasty surprise for people, but trying to make them into magical grenades just does not work.

"The object used for the preparation is called the lynch- pin. It must be small enough for you to lift, handle, and manipulate."

No floors. Which would in any case introduce the "separable auras" problem in a big way.  If an arrow head is the same as the arrow how is a floor not the same as the Earth?

If you want a "don't step on this" trap bring a cloth or something to use as a floor mat. It's a gray area, but some might want to allow you to put a preparation on a hinged door.

Crunch

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« Reply #74 on: <08-13-13/0926:48> »
As there's no delayed contact action the arrow doesn't have time to penetrate before it goes poof.
Does it say somewhere in the book that the lynchpin is destroyed when the spell goes of?

Not explicitly, on the other hand it doesn't say you can do double damage with the attack either. If you want an official answer go FAQ it. I suspect you'll get the same answer people get every time they ask if they can double dip for damage, but I could be surprised.