[shinryu]

so, if i assume that the contact trigger for preparations means that anyone could carry the preparation around in a bag or other container and not actually set it off without reaching in and touching it, that means that mundanes have an option to port around one or more spells easily. i think this is great, and it's something that i'm surprised wasn't more prevalent in earlier editions. there's something awesomely atmospheric about the chromed-out sam going to the local street shaman for a protective fetish before a run.

so this means that one thing talismongers are likely to be making money on is selling these to mundanes. however, there's no direct pricing information for this sort of thing, so i'd like some input on educated guesses for how much a spell might sell for as a preparation.

factors to consider:

1) labor time is actually pretty negligible, four or five minutes for most spells.

2) material costs are also negligible, unless the maker uses reagents to increase limits on the spell. i imagine this is actually rather popular, however, since this allows the maker to use less force and risk less damage.

3) since the spell is traceable astrally, i can imagine the cost of a death touch or control thoughts preparation to be pretty high, though a death touch preparation on a stick, arrow, or your brass knuckles* is one of the best things you could have handy for spirits. alternatively, preparations like armor or mana barrier are relatively harmless and probably relatively cheap and legal to sell.

so figure maybe 50 nuyen an hour for a talismonger? so say, 10 nuyen for labor time, 60-100 nuyen for reagents, 20% profit margin? so 100 to 150 nuyen for a reasonable utility spell like armor or magic fingers; maybe even double that since magic is rare and all. probably at least 4 to 10 times that for manipulation or combat spells depending on force. sound about right?

*assume here the preparation is actually glued to the front of the knucks, so you're not touching it while you wear them. think like an o-fudo strip or something. punch somebody or something in the face, it's sure touching them though. a force 8 or 10 death touch or punch spell might be enough to do some damage to a spirit without seriously hurting the alchemist who makes it.

[Slithery D]

2) material costs are also negligible, unless the maker uses reagents to increase limits on the spell. i imagine this is actually rather popular, however, since this allows the maker to use less force and risk less damage.

Yes, as long as they keep the limit below Magic. But keep in mind dropping Force also cuts minutes off the sustainment time, making them less valuable to the customer.

Price is going to be the intersection of supply and demand. The supply curve is going to depend on how many people know the appropriate preparation, the opportunity cost of other stuff they could be doing (wards, security, spirit provision, direct casting spells), and especially how much you have to compensate them for drain. I doubt a magician wants to risk getting slammed by drain every day, and even taking a mild headache every day in is going to cost. How much would you charge for someone to punch you in the gut, kick you in the balls, or inflict an hours long migraine on you?

Demand is how much you can get away paying. If you don't have a lot of competitors, people are going to be willing to pay a lot more than 150 nuyen for a Heal spell or Mana Barrier if they think they're likely to get shot or face magical opposition on a run.

I'd set prices based on a drain code (plus reagent cost), multiply by some factor for illegal or rare spells and especially by risk of being an accessory to a crime. It might be illegal to hand out Heal spells to someone not currently injured - what kind of person anticipates being injured in the next 24 hours (or however long it takes for the Potency to fade) enough to pay hundreds of nuyen for an auto-Heal?

So the guy dealing in preparations to the shadows is probably a low level initiate with Flexible Signature to minimize his exposure to trouble. That's going to cost. I'd probably call it 500+.

[Slithery D]

Come to think of it, I expect you'd need a license just to even possess a Preparation, just like you have to be licensed to cast it. So the risk for the seller (and the price) just went up on everything.

[Mäx]

The fact that preparations don't last even a day heavily cuts down on their usefullness and the market for them, as there's no reason to buy one unless you seriously expect to need one in the next couple of hours.

[Unahim]

The fact that preparations don't last even a day heavily cuts down on their usefullness and the market for them, as there's no reason to buy one unless you seriously expect to need one in the next couple of hours.

Which is also what killed my spy-who-uses-alchemical-preparations-instead-of-technology idea. It just proved to be so much more hassle for less gain than just lugging some toys around.

[shinryu]

well, that's the thing, better to have and not need, right? if you know you're hitting that MCT facility tonight, i'd rather have a mana barrier or a healing preparation on me and have it fade away then to not have it when the HTR team comes calling. there's also the fixation metamagic to consider, which seems like a requirement for any serious alchemist. it's a bit more expensive than it really should be in terms of karma, i admit, especially compared to quickening. it does seem like alchemy is more of an NPC thing, though i did have a decent ninja alchemist mystic adept ginned up. those shuriken with a force 8 punch on them hurt like a bastard.

despite the cost and duration issues, if there's no real other way for a mundane to have magical abilities then you kind of have to take what you can get, no?  i can see a lot of people who might reasonably expect to be hurt and/or need a mana barrier and/or want to turn invisible in the next few hours other than shadowrunners. bodyguards, HTR responders, VIPs leaving their arcologies for any reason at all, Johnsons expecting trouble at a meet, etc. several detection spells are the sort of thing you'd want to have just a bit more of an edge in, well, a lot of situations. detectives, pick up artists, suspicious wives, hunters...

for that matter, isn't it cheaper to have the DocWagon mage at HQ dial up some healing preparations to hand out to the trauma team then to have him risk his ass on a hot pickup? better yet, he can work his healing magic at multiple incidents this way, rather than having to actually be present to work on patients. same situation for an HTR team; i'd rather have a team alchemist gin up a few heals and mana barriers every night and have them ready to go on the sortie instead of having to have the very valuable mage directly exposed to fire. especially if said alchemist is a second-stringer or aspected alchemist that would probably just get killed in a real firefight anyway.

as far as legality, i can't imagine a preparation for a healing, detection or protection spell would be illegal very often as long as the maker is licensed. the point about flexible signature is well-taken if for no other reason than said alchemist wanting to avoid the red samurai knocking on his door trying to find out who bought from him earlier in the evening. control thoughts or combat spells, yeah, those are probably going to be illegal as all hell to possess. except, of course, for the brave boys on your friendly neighborhood HTR team.

[RHat]

Considering that a Potency 6 preparation is only at maximum efficacy for 12 hours, and becomes useless after 18...  It's not like you can in practical terms have a stock of these lying around, nor can you realistically buy them all that far in advance.

[shinryu]

it's fifteen minutes work for the mage at DocWagon to dial up three or four heals to be ready to go for the evening shift. if he's smart about the drain he probably will be ready to make three or four more in an hour. if a customer comes into your talisman shop and needs an armor amulet, five minutes of work makes you 500 nuyen. i don't really see the problem, honestly.

[RHat]

Sure, for organizations like that such things would happen - but that's not the open market.  On the open market, you're looking at custom work, in effect, with rates to suit due to the lower customer base - and prices to match.

[DigitalZombie]

Sadly all spells from the healing category needs to have the command trigger. which means the caster needs to be present to trigger it   (page 305)

[RHat]

Sadly all spells from the healing category needs to have the command trigger. which means the caster needs to be present to trigger it   (page 305)

Astral Projection is an option, however.

[Mäx]

Sadly all spells from the healing category needs to have the command trigger. which means the caster needs to be present to trigger it   (page 305)

Well now thats a weird and arbitrary restriction, didn't even notice that before.

[Mirikon]

Well, that restriction is in place for two reasons. 1) To keep people from whining that it makes healing too accessible, allowing mundanes to just grab magical healing in the middle of a run while the mage is busy, for example. 2) Game balance.

[Crunch]

Considering that a Potency 6 preparation is only at maximum efficacy for 12 hours, and becomes useless after 18...  It's not like you can in practical terms have a stock of these lying around, nor can you realistically buy them all that far in advance.

That sounds like something that might be part of a well prepared security team though. "Son't forget to drop by the armory at the beginning of your shift to pick up your potion of Increased Reflexes. Let's be careful out there." Expensive over the long run, but I could see it as something you did for the week that uber-VIP bob was in town.

[Mirikon]

Actually, not even all that expensive, Crunch, depending on the tradition and how you did preparations. If you, say, use the Touch trigger, and make onmyudo charms (something you'd definitely see in the Japanacorps where Shinto is a big thing) in a plastic bag, then all you have to do is open the bag and touch the charm to unleash the spell. And onmyudo charms are just strips of paper with writing on them. An Increase Reflexes, Armor, or Combat Sense charm would be very effective, I think.