[bigity]

On the Mentor Spirit front:  the intention is that she has Coyote (Raven) as a Mentor, and I'm doing what I can with the bosses to--hopefully--get an insert wedged in somewhere prior to the boxed set(s) going to print.

Wait...so mechanically, Coyote is supposed to be identical to Raven? This is news to me.

And while the SR5 core book does mention that Raven is a "close cousin" to Coyote, it doesn't exactly list in under the "similar archetype" heading. Was this why a formal Coyote mentor spirit was absent from the book? Because it was deemed too similar to Raven?

Probably because Coyote totem has no pluses and no minuses - and thus, isn't 'worth' spending points for an advantage that gives...nothing. 

It's also crap.  Coyote has no bonuses or penalties!  Coyote has no need of such things and does not wish to be tied down by them.  My shaman takes the edge (or whatever they are called now) because of RP.

Also, I intend to houserule all shamans must take a mentor spirit (for free though).  Assuming I ever make the jump into 5E.

[ImaginalDisc]

Also, I intend to houserule all shamans must take a mentor spirit (for free though).  Assuming I ever make the jump into 5E.

Why? Not all animistic religious traditions involve being chosen or volunteering to serve a single entity. Most shinto priests, for example, don't serve any one particular spirit.

[Critias]

Probably because Coyote totem has no pluses and no minuses - and thus, isn't 'worth' spending points for an advantage that gives...nothing. 

It's also crap.  Coyote has no bonuses or penalties!  Coyote has no need of such things and does not wish to be tied down by them.  My shaman takes the edge (or whatever they are called now) because of RP.

In SR5, as I've tried to make clear, that is not the case.  Coyote is statistically the same as Raven.  The bonuses attributed to Raven are also given to Coyote shaman, in fifth edition. 

[AJCarrington]

Hey Critias, any feedback from TPTB regarding the errata/corrections submitted?

[bigity]

Also, I intend to houserule all shamans must take a mentor spirit (for free though).  Assuming I ever make the jump into 5E.

Why? Not all animistic religious traditions involve being chosen or volunteering to serve a single entity. Most shinto priests, for example, don't serve any one particular spirit.

And they wouldn't be the shaman tradition, so it's still good?  There are similarities, but in my mind, different tradition entirely. 

Seeing how SR directly derived the shaman tradition from various Native American beliefs.  I guess these days they are all kinda lumped together though.  Maybe I'll just offer it for free instead of forcing it.

[bigity]

Probably because Coyote totem has no pluses and no minuses - and thus, isn't 'worth' spending points for an advantage that gives...nothing. 

It's also crap.  Coyote has no bonuses or penalties!  Coyote has no need of such things and does not wish to be tied down by them.  My shaman takes the edge (or whatever they are called now) because of RP.

In SR5, as I've tried to make clear, that is not the case.  Coyote is statistically the same as Raven.  The bonuses attributed to Raven are also given to Coyote shaman, in fifth edition.

This response was mostly tongue in cheek.  Coyote is different because I like Coyote and not Raven. 

[Michael Chandra]

Also, I intend to houserule all shamans must take a mentor spirit (for free though).  Assuming I ever make the jump into 5E.

Why? Not all animistic religious traditions involve being chosen or volunteering to serve a single entity. Most shinto priests, for example, don't serve any one particular spirit.

And they wouldn't be the shaman tradition, so it's still good?  There are similarities, but in my mind, different tradition entirely.

Unless you implement different traditions, which you did not clarify that you would originally, the houserule would be absurd. If you indeed go beyond Hermetic-vs-Shaman, then it's an option.

[bigity]

They will all (well some I guess) come in with the new magic book.  And I'm not certain serving is the right way to look at the totem/shaman relationship.

[Namikaze]

The fact is, the Shaman tradition as described in the book is a little nebulous.  But there's almost zero problem with converting the traditions from Street Magic directly.  With the exception of a few issues of spirit types that don't exist yet, which can be easily fudged with some common sense.  So Bigity, if you are going to allow other traditions (and really, why not?) then I think your rule makes some sense.  But since the Shaman tradition as described in the book doesn't just restrict itself to animistic shamanic traditions, then I think your rule is a little heavy-handed.

[tasti man LH]

...you do know that his house rule is based on the rules for Shamans in the 2050 book, right?

Shamanic Totems
A shaman in 2050 is first introduced to magic by connecting
with his totem. A totem is simply the mentor
spirit of a shaman. If you play a shaman in 2050,
you get the Mentor Spirit quality for free. You may
choose any mentor spirit (p. 200, SR4A). Choose a
mentor spirit based on nature, or alter a less natural
mentor spirit to fit a shamanic or Native American
tradition. For example, you might choose Fire-Bringer
but change its name to Raven (not to be confused
with the mentor spirit of the same name), because
in the traditions of the Pacific Northwest, Raven stole
fire from the sun and brought it to humanity.

[Michael Chandra]

2050 magic was far different from 2070s magic, Unified Magic Theory and all that. Both Shamans and Hermetics can both Bind and Summon, after all.

[tasti man LH]

Well, some people kind of liked the more stricter divide between hermetics and shamans mechanics wise. Which I personally totally get, but only defer to UMT for simplicity's sake.

That said, there was a promise that Street Grimoire would have optional rules that would make traditions more distinct from each other in mechanics. But we'll see...

[Michael Chandra]

I don't mind some difference, but the massive divide there was before just doesn't work when you got X different traditions around.

[tasti man LH]

...and back then there weren't that many traditions around to begin with.

4th introduced the most tradtions that SR has ever had to date.

[Michael Chandra]

I know.