[Jmix421]

Awesome! Thanks, em, that did make -perfect- sense. That's pretty much what i thought. So building on that, what do you think would be the -best- set up for that on a troll or ork? Not necessarily maxed, but say max bod, mid agi, mid str with the spur (probably specialize in it) and maybe the armor, can live without the gyromount, and preferably without the torso, so i still have -some- room for other 'ware. And also, since it's looking like troll and ork (first and second pick) are pretty much the worst ones for Tank/Face with a cyberarm, what would the best be for that? My third choice would be dwarf, and I'm guessing that's the one? Just can't get over the mental image I get of the troll version, frickin b.a.!

[emsquared]

In place of the Gyromount, you can only start with Armor Rating 2 as the Availability is 5xRating - and you'll have 2 capacity remaining in the limb, but you can fill that with 2 more Armor Ranks in play, but otherwise, you might as well start with what's above as that's the best you can buy at Chargen without Restricted Gear Quality.

I dunno, I think they're okay for Troll or Ork, you just maybe shouldn't invest quite as heavily in the BOD/STR/AGI natural attributes, and you have to be okay with having those Aug Maxes just out of reach... And you have to be okay with only using 1-handed weapons very effectively Cyberlimbs can turn anyone into a Tank because of the Damage Box and the easy armor, but you could easily be approaching GM-wielding-phone-book territory as a Troll because you could easily be getting up into the 20s for B/I armor... Ork is absolutely reasonable if that's what interests.

Really, cyberlimbs just aren't very recommendable for Street-Sammies (i.e. someone who is going to use their AGI for more than just attacking - like Infiltration, and someone who's gonna load up on a ton more 'ware).

[Jmix421]

So I figured if I wanted pointers on this character I'd better post the newest build as well, so here it is, after 2 sessions, and my first purchase being Attention Coprocessor. Have a pretty good idea of where to go from here (muscle toner 4, alpha wired refs 2+ or MBW, possibly Pheremones or Reflex Recorders for Pistols, heavy weapons or stealth group) but any pointers are welcome (and I now have access to supplemental books, if necessary), and if you have better ideas, I want to hear them.

Edit: Weird, must have gotten the previous build somehow, adding in changes right now, marked with *.

== Info ==
Street Name: Jager
Name: Kazden Blade
Movement: 10/25, Swim: 6
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: 2
Public Awareness: 0
Elf Male Age 24
Height 5'5 Weight 145
Composure: 6
Judge Intentions: 8
Lift/Carry: 6 (45 kg/30 kg)
Memory: 10
Nuyen: 0

== Attributes ==
BOD: 3
AGI: 6 (
REA: 5 (
STR: 1 (3)
CHA: 3
INT: 5
LOG: 5 (7)
WIL: 3
EDG: 3

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence:                  * 2.15
Initiative:                10 (13)
IP:                        1 (2)
Matrix Initiative:         8
Matrix IP:                 1
Physical Damage Track:     10
Stun Damage Track:         10

== Active Skills ==
Archery                    : 0                      Pool: 7
Armorer                    : 0                      Pool: 6
Artisan                    : 0                      Pool: 4
Automatics                 : 0                      Pool: 7
Blades                     : 0                      Pool: 7
Climbing                   : 1                      Pool: 5
Clubs                      : 0                      Pool: 7
Computer                   : 1                      Pool: 8
Con                        : 4                      Pool: 7
Cybercombat                : 0                      Pool: 6
Data Search                : 1                      Pool: 8
Demolitions                : 1                      Pool: 8
Disguise                   : 4                      Pool: 9
Diving                     : 0                      Pool: 2
Dodge                      : 0                      Pool: 7
Escape Artist              : 0                      Pool: 7
Etiquette                  : 1                      Pool: 4
First Aid                  : 1                      Pool: 8
Forgery                    : 0                      Pool: 7
Gunnery                    : 0                      Pool: 7
Gymnastics                 : 4                      Pool: 13
Hacking                    : 0                      Pool: 6
Hardware                   : 4 [Maglocks]           Pool: 11 (13)
Heavy Weapons              : 1                      Pool: 9
Infiltration               : 4                      Pool: 13
Intimidation               : 0                      Pool: 2
Leadership                 : 0                      Pool: 2
Locksmith                  : 0                      Pool: 7
Longarms                   : 0                      Pool: 7
Navigation                 : 0                      Pool: 4
Negotiation                : 0                      Pool: 2
Palming                    : 4                      Pool: 13
Parachuting                : 0                      Pool: 2
Perception                 : 4 [Visual]             Pool: 9 (11)
Pilot Aircraft             : 1                      Pool: 9
Pilot Ground Craft         : 0                      Pool: 7
Pilot Watercraft           : 0                      Pool: 7
Pistols                    : 6 [Semi-Automatics]    Pool: 14 (16)
Running                    : 1                      Pool: 5
Shadowing                  : 4                      Pool: 9
Survival                   : 0                      Pool: 2
Swimming                   : 0                      Pool: 2
Throwing Weapons           : 0                      Pool: 7
Tracking                   : 0                      Pool: 4
Unarmed Combat             : 1                      Pool: 9

== Knowledge Skills ==
Architecture               : 5                      Pool: 12
Combat Tactics             : 2                      Pool: 9
Data Havens                : 2                      Pool: 7
English                    : N                      Pool: 0
Firearms                   : 5                      Pool: 12
German                     : 4                      Pool: 9
Security Companies         : 2                      Pool: 9
Security Design            : 4                      Pool: 9
Security Tactics           : 4                      Pool: 11
Spirits                    : 2                      Pool: 9

== Contacts ==
Fixer (6, 1)
Lone Star Dispatch (1, 1)

== Qualities ==
Addiction (Mild) (Psyche)
Allergy (Common, Mild) (Pollution)
Blandness
Incompetent (Instruction)
Low-Light Vision
Scorched
SINner (Standard) (UCAS)
Weak Immune System

== Lifestyles ==
Low  2 months

== Cyberware/Bioware ==
*Attention Coprocessor 3
Cerebral Booster Rating 2
Commlink
Cyberears Rating 1
   +Ear Recording Unit
   +Sound Link
   +Damper
   +Spatial Recognizer
Cybereyes Basic System Rating 1
   +Eye Recording Unit
   +Image Link
   +Protective Covers
   +Smartlink
   +Flare Compensation
Enhanced Articulation
Muscle Augmentation Rating 2
Muscle Toner Rating 2
Reaction Enhancers Rating 2
Wired Reflexes Rating 1

== Armor ==
Chameleon Suit            6/4
   +Nonconductivity 3
   +Thermal Damping 6
Clothing                  0/0
Lined Coat                6/4
   +Chemical Protection 4
   +Nonconductivity 5

== Weapons ==
Ares Predator IV
   +Concealable Holster
   +Quick-Draw Holster
   +Silencer
   +Spare Clips
   +Spare Clips
   +Spare Clips
   +Spare Clips
   +Spare Clips
   +Spare Clips
   +Spare Clips
   +Spare Clips
   +Smartgun System
   Pool: 16 (18)   DV: 5P   AP: -1   RC: 0
Defiance EX Shocker
   +Smartgun System, Internal
   +Spare Clips
   +Spare Clips
   Pool: 16   DV: 8S(e)   AP: -half   RC: 0
Defiance EX Shocker Melee
   Pool: 7   DV: 8S(e)   AP: -half   RC: 0
Grenade: Flash-Bang
   Pool: 7   DV: 6S (10m Radius)   AP: -3   RC: 0
Grenade: Flash-Pak
   Pool: 7   DV: Special   AP: -   RC: 0
Grenade: Gas
   Pool: 7   DV: Chemical (10m Radius)   AP: -   RC: 0
Grenade: Gas
   Pool: 7   DV: Chemical (10m Radius)   AP: -   RC: 0
Grenade: Thermal Smoke
   Pool: 7   DV: (10m Radius)   AP: -   RC: 0
Ingram White Knight
   +Gyro Stabilization
   +Smartgun System, Internal
   +Spare Clips
   +Spare Clips
   +Spare Clips
   +Spare Clips
   +Stock
   +Tripod
   Pool: 11   DV: 6P   AP: -1   RC: 12
Monofilament Chainsaw Rating 2
   +DP Penalty
   Pool: -2   DV: 5P   AP: -2   RC: 0
Ruger Super Warhawk
   +Concealable Holster
   +Quick-Draw Holster
   +Smartgun System, Internal
   +Speed Loader
   +Speed Loader
   +Speed Loader
   +Speed Loader
   +Speed Loader
   +Speed Loader
   Pool: 16   DV: 6P   AP: -2   RC: 0
Streetline Special
   +Concealable Holster
   +Hidden Gun Arm Slide
   +Smartgun System, Internal
   +Spare Clips
   +Spare Clips
   Pool: 16   DV: 4P   AP: -   RC: 0
Survival Knife
   Pool: 7   DV: 3P   AP: -1   RC: 0
Sword
   Pool: 7   DV: 5P   AP: -   RC: 0
Yamaha Sakura Fubuki
   +Concealable Holster
   +Quick-Draw Holster
   +Smartgun System, Internal
   +Spare Clips
   +Spare Clips
   +Spare Clips
   +Spare Clips
   +Spare Clips
   +Spare Clips
   +Spare Clips
   +Spare Clips
   +Spare Clips
   +Spare Clips
   +Spare Clips
   +Spare Clips
   +Stock
   Pool: 16 (18)   DV: 4P   AP: -   RC: 1

== Commlink ==
Hermes Ikon (3, 4, 3, 3)
   +Novatech Navi
   +Agent Rating 3
   +Analyze Rating 3
   +Browse Rating 3
   +Command Rating 3
   +Edit Rating 3
   +Biometric Reader
   +Track Rating 3
Meta Link (1, 1, 1, 2)
   +Vector Xim
   +Subvocal Microphone
Meta Link (1, 1, 1, 2)
   +Vector Xim

== Gear ==
Ammo: EX-Explosive Rounds (Heavy Pistols) x120
Ammo: EX-Explosive Rounds (Light Machine Guns) x200
Ammo: EX-Explosive Rounds (Holdouts) x50
Ammo: Flechette Rounds (Heavy Pistols) x60
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Light Pistols) x200
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Heavy Pistols) x120
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Light Machine Guns) x200
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Holdouts) x50
Ammo: Stick-n-Shock (Light Pistols) x200
Ammo: Taser Dart (Tasers) x50
Autopicker Rating 6
Chisel
Commercial Explosive Rating 3 x5
Contact Lenses Rating 2
   +Vision Enhancement Rating 3
   +Vision Magnification
Datachip x10
Detonator Cap x10
Earbuds Rating 2
   +Audio Enhancement Rating 3
   +Select Sound Filter Rating 3
Fake License (Firearms) Rating 4
Fake License (Cyberware) Rating 4
Fake License (Concealed Carry) Rating 4
Fake License (Investigation) Rating 4
Fake License (Electrician) Rating 4
Fake SIN (Jager) Rating 2
Fake SIN (Kazden Blade) Rating 4
Fake SIN (Razor) Rating 1
Flashlight
Foam Explosive Rating 4 x5
Gecko Tape Gloves
Glue Sprayer
Goggles Rating 2
   +Thermographic
   +Low Light
Grapple Gun
   +Climbing Gear
   +Rappelling Gloves
   +Microwire (100 m)
Grenade: Flash-Bang x5
Grenade: Flash-Pak
Grenade: Gas x5
   +Pepper Punch
Grenade: Gas x5
   +Neuro-Stun
Grenade: Thermal Smoke x5
Handheld Sensor
   +Cyberware Scanner Rating 6
   +MAD Scanner Rating 3
   +Radio Signal Scanner Rating 6
Handheld Sensor
   +Laser Microphone Rating 6
   +Directional Microphone
Jammer, Area Rating 4
Jammer, Directional Rating 6
Light Stick x5
Magnesium Torch x5
Mapsoft (New Orleans) Rating 6
Medkit Rating 6
   +Medkit Supplies
Miniwelder
Monofilament Chainsaw
Nanopaste Disguise (Small Container) x2
Plastic Restraints x20
Psyche x5
Respirator Rating 6
Standard Rope (100 m)
Survival Kit
Tag Eraser
Tool Kit (Electronics)
Tool Kit (Hardware)
White Noise Generator Rating 6
Wire Clippers

== Vehicles ==
MCT Fly-Spy (Minidrone)
   +Improved Takeoff and Landing Level 2
   +Clearsight Rating 3
   +Maneuver (Aircraft) Rating 3
   +Minidrone Sensor
      +Camera Rating 2 [Ultrasound, Vision Magnification]
      +Microphone Rating 2 [Audio Enhancement 3, Spatial Recognizer]
      +Olfactory Sensor Rating 6
Suzuki Mirage (Racing Bike)
   +Maneuver (Wheeled) Rating 4
   +Vehicle Sensor
      +Camera Rating 1 [Vision Enhancement 3]
      +Microphone Rating 1 [Audio Enhancement 3]

[emsquared]

Without the Attention Coprocessor, your perception should be 12 (audio)/14 visual - 4 Skill + 5 INT + 3 earbuds/contacts +2 visual spec. That's 4, and almost 5, successes on average which means you can spot Hidden/Micro/Silent things reliably. Do you really need the Rating 3 attention co-processor right now?

All you're ever going to need that much "spotting power" for is detecting people sneaking around you (probably not too common, depending on your table), and even then you can get up to 15 audio and 17 visual dice by upping your Perception Skill and INT Attribute, which you'll want to do anyway and would put you on par with, if not better than, all but the most chromed out street-sams.

I'd keep saving up for that high-grade, and expensive but great bioware. You'll really want to keep your ESS at or above 2.0 so your Magician has some sort of chance to Heal you, and the only way to do that, while continuing to add chrome to yourself is to start investing in the good stuff. I wouldn't even mess with Alpha-Wired, save up for the cheap ESS-gold-mine of Synaptic Boosters 2 (only 160K, for better ESS-loss than Wired will ever give you).

Which isn't to say, don't treat yourself here and there, and an Attention Co-processor isn't that expensive, but depending on how much combat your table sees, some things I would be looking into before the Co-pro are (in addition to Toner Rating 4) Reflex Recorders for your Pistols, Reakt, and especially a tricked out Ruger Thunderbolt.

[Jmix421]

Cool thanks em, that's a good point on the co-pro, I could just up my Int a couple points when I start getting karma, and buff perception -and- initiative, rather than just perception with the 'ware. Probably go with Toner 4 first then, since that agility would buff quite a few different things as well. And I've read a lot about the Thunderbolt, what makes it so good? Definitely interested in new weapons/mods from Arsenal, any others I should keep in mind? First one I want for sure is the gauss rifle,  since that's pretty much why I went heavy weapons rather than automatics on him, to get an assault cannon. Other than that there's so many I can't tell which ones are the best, or even better than what I already have. Also interested in tweaking his armor now that  have I Arsenal  available, but I don't think I can do much there yet with his Body so low.

[emsquared]

And I've read a lot about the Thunderbolt, what makes it so good?

Five words; semi-automatic burst-fire baby.

With it's 2 points of integral RC, you should be able to fully compensate all but 1 point of the BF Recoil (with Electronic Firing and a Powered Folding Stock, get extended ammo cap and silencer too...), so you'll be firing 2 x 8P w/ 2 pts of AP, if you use EX-ex rounds. You just about have a LMG in your pocket.

And, yeah, I think you can trick out a Warhawk to do 2 x 8P, w/ 3 pts of AP, with no recoil (using Ex-ex & high-powered chambering/rounds, and a firing-mode upgrade - but after smartlink I don't think it has the mod-slots left to be silenced) and that over-chambering makes it louder...

May have to check my math on that though.

Also, you should totally get Full Body FFA, Securetech PPP Ensemble, and then a 1/1 armor clothing bit of your choice.

[Jmix421]

So, I think I'm gonna wait on more ware and work on my guns instead. Icame up with a plan and worked on them some last night, here's the rundown.

Modding: warhawk and ingram
Buying and Modding: morissey Elan and thunderbolt
Selling: streetline, predator and fubuki

I'm at work so can't post the full setup until I'm home, but I'll post what I can remember, in the order I plan to purchase, to make sure I'm on the right track.

Mod: warhawk
Previously added-smartgun
Adding- increased cylinder, firing mode-semi auto, ammo skip, and personalized grip
(might make this my main gun if I make these changes)

Mod:white knight - comes with gas vent 5, stock
Previously added- smartgun, Tripod, gyro mount (will swap between those 2 as the situation needs)
Adding- personalized grip, heavy barrel, foregrip
(doing these 2 first since they're the ones I already own and am keeping, so they'll be the quickest, easiest, and cheapest)
Edit: looking at this again and it looks like recoil is fully comped, even without tripod or gyro, so I guess I could sell those or something(that by itself is enough to pay for most of the other guns/upgrades on my list).

Buy+mod: Elan
Adding: smartgun, sliencer, electronic firing, extended clip
(doing this one first over the Thunderbolt, because I'm getting added functionality (beats MAD scanner) over just more damage, plus it's the cheaper of the 2)

Buy+mod: thunderbolt - comes with smartgun
Adding: silencer (accessory, barrel(Edit: never mind, found it in the book, you can get either one but the mod version is better, still going with the accessory I think), electronic firing, extended clip, powered stock
(probably get another one just like this for my wife's character as well)

And eventually: assault cannon. Not sure which one, which one is best, and what can/can't/should I add as far as mods and accessories?
Also: heavy machine gun. Was planning on this instead of modding the Ingram, but it costs about 10x more, so yeah, waiting a while on that. But again, which one is the best and what mods/accessories should I add?
Maybe: grenade/rocket launcher. Best one, and best mods?

Ok I think that's it, still learning mod rules and figuring out accessory vs modification, so I can't say for sure if these are all 100% legal and/or optimal. And like I said, I'll post what I have saved in Chummer in a few hours when I get home. Thanks once again for b.a. advice and quick friendly replies!

[emsquared]

Why not use Electronic Firing instead of Personalized Grip on the Warhawk? You should have the Slot for it and the EF reduces your sound profile too. I would say ditch the Ammo Skipper and just have different Speed Loaders kitted up for your possible/likely needs. Then you could use that spare Slot for something fun... like a Barrel Extension!

Buy+mod: thunderbolt - comes with smartgun
Adding: silencer (accessory, barrel(can I still use accessories in addition to mods? Only 1 or the other? Or only mods since we're using arsenal now? Depends on if you can get that effect in one form, or the other, or both?)

You can squeeze a lot more into that Thunderbolt, I'd recommend an Underbarrel Weight a Barrel Extension and then using that to try and persuade your GM to let you slap a Foregrip on it [edit]I thought Underbarrel Weight was only good for FA, turns out it's for everything but Hold-out![/edit] to fully RC compensate that BF. If you can convince him a slightly longer magazine should require a Slot, then get the Barrel Extension.

Or heck, if you can convince GM that Extended Clip shouldn't take a Slot, you could even give yourself the option to go Full-Auto with it and slap on an Underbarrel Weight and fire a 15P, -2AP Full-Burst with your Pistol at just a -4 for recoil , and if he won't budge on the Extended Clip, so what, don't take it and it'd still make a hell of a one-off weapon (aka your Spirit-Killer)! BrrRRRRAAAAAAAP!

Accessories and Mods can be combined to a very large extent. As accessories have a specific area where they can mount (Barrel, Top and Under), and Mods are limited by Slots, as long as the "Type" of Mod/Accessory doesn't overlap, you can combine. It's kind of weird wording, that could leave a lot up to GM discretion (like, can I not combine a Stock Accessory - which is a Recoil reducing Type, with the Electronic Firing Mod - which is also of the Recoil reducing Type; the answer should be Yes) - but mainly I think that language is in there so people don't try and do something like have a Gas Vent Acc. and Mod, or a Silencer Mod and Acc., or two Stocks or two Scopes or something dumb that people probably wouldn't try to do anyway.

As indicated, beyond that, when I GM I personally like to use what I consider a little common sense, like why does an extended clip take a Mod Slot when all it is, is a longer magazine (for a Revolver, that makes sense as you have to alter the Firearm to accommodate the larger cylinder)? And Custom Look, depending on what the player wants to do, I don't have take a Slot.

[Jmix421]

Aw man, I had a nice big reply typed up, then hit the back button  . Oh well. Basically, after adding the underbarrel weight to the thunderbolt, that gives it 5 RC, which is full comp, right? Which means as far as I can tell, out of those 4 guns there's no recoil on anything, right, as far as Chummer is telling me, anyways? Which sounds pretty damn sweet to me, and exactly how I'd like it! I don't see any reason not to switch up the warhawk though, as is I'm just giving up free bonuses, that I'd get doing it your way. I just figured, its a revolver, mostly firing explosive rounds, with no silencer, it's gonna be pretty loud and a little -1 isn't really gonna help much. And then the ammo skip, to do half and half and waste less (or none) getting to the different kinds, like maybe buy some APDS to put in there for those spirits? Plus doing that as a free action (skip) rather than a simple (reload.)  But like I said, your way is probably better, overall, and ammo's not -that- expensive, at least not 4-8 at a time, and since I'll have the Elan for "super concealable", I guess I shouldn't be all that worried about concealability on the others, huh (as far as Extended barrels go)? And I -might- be able to talk GM into houseruling on those mods to beef this stuff up even more, but I think I'm gonna save my begging-the-GM for trying to get a re-do on these guns, with the "this is how I'd have done it at creation, if I knew I could use the other books" excuse, and a side of "(almost) everyone else is getting an in-play tweak, don't see why I can't too." Anything to add on the other guns, or the cannon or launcher? Those will be a while in the future, obviously, but I really want that cannon as soon as I can. Many thanks emsquared for your advice, It's making not only my characters, better, but my whole group!

[emsquared]

Basically, after adding the underbarrel weight to the thunderbolt, that gives it 5 RC, which is full comp, right? Which means as far as I can tell, out of those 4 guns there's no recoil on anything, right, as far as Chummer is telling me, anyways? Which sounds pretty damn sweet to me, and exactly how I'd like it!

Correct. Two, BFs each round, no recoil.

I don't see any reason not to switch up the warhawk though, as is I'm just giving up free bonuses, that I'd get doing it your way. I just figured, its a revolver, mostly firing explosive rounds, with no silencer, it's gonna be pretty loud and a little -1 isn't really gonna help much. And then the ammo skip, to do half and half and waste less (or none) getting to the different kinds, like maybe buy some APDS to put in there for those spirits? Plus doing that as a free action (skip) rather than a simple (reload.)  But like I said, your way is probably better, overall, and ammo's not -that- expensive, at least not 4-8 at a time, and since I'll have the Elan for "super concealable", I guess I shouldn't be all that worried about concealability on the others, huh (as far as Extended barrels go)?

Well, EF isn't free, it does take 2 Slots whereas Personalized Grip is 1, but if there's not anything else you want to do with the Slot... yea, why not?

Ammo Skip is great on larger capacity weapons, I just don't see the point on an 8 shot revolver. Say you do get it - and load each cylinder with what, 4 regular 4 APDS (or whatever specialty) or 6 and 2? You're either going to be shooting your specialty ammo anyway, or reloading sooner anyway. It's only rarely gonna save you time, but you'll almost always be either using that specialty ammo that you probably don't need to be using or reloading to conserve it, at which point you'll be losing more actions to that then you'll ever save with the Skipping anyway. Which it's not the ammo cost that makes it worth it (just pocket the Speed Loader you eject for use later), IME it's that usually on Runs you'll have a fairly limited amount of ammo you'll be able to carry, depending on how covert you need to be, so you need to save that specialty stuff for when you need it - and when you need it, you'll probably want more than 2 or 4 shots of it before reloading anyway because you'll have lost that Action you just supposedly saved with the Skipper. Besides it's just a Simple Action to fire a SA weapon, so you can put in your APDS or SnS or whatever and still shoot once that same round, not a total loss.

For the concealability hit with an Extended Barrel, that's something you'll have to weigh the worth for yourself. With a Concealable Holster (which you should have for every pistol), it's not too big of a deal, but then again neither is the Extended Barrel. It doesn't really pay dividends on a Pistol until Extreme Range, but if you have your Vision Enhancements set up properly (Vision Magnification), you could be glad for those extra 4 - 6 meters.

Anything to add on the other guns, or the cannon or launcher?

I've never messed with modding Heavy Weapons much, maybe Reduced Weight, Extended Clips, Easy Breakdown, Barrel Extensions?

[Jmix421]

Man, that's a really good point on the Ammo skip, and wanting/needing more than 2-4 shots of my specialty ammos. It's gone, and I'll just use the speed loaders. Only thing is, now I have an open slot again, and don't know what to put in it, 'cause I don't really want the Barrel Extension. Sure I could take the concealable holster with it to balance out the negative on the barrel mod, and that makes it a full win, but I planned on using the -quick draw- holster for that gun. Guess that's a pretty minor thing, though. Gonna study the mods tonight and try to pick something, I guess, that was about half of why I picked the ammo skip to begin with, 'cause I was trying to fill up the cap, and already had the stuff i actually -wanted-. I guess with so many to pick from I should be able to figure out something. But at the very least I'm back where I started as far as capacity, but with better effects, so that's a win. Oh well, probably end up going with your suggestions anyways, as that seems like it's the most benefit.

Oh yeah, one question I had was about specialization if I get these new guns. Now, like I said before, the warhawk will probably be my new main gun, and obviously the specialization for that would be Revolvers, no matter what I do to it it's always gonna be a revolver, so that one's easy. Or would the semi-auto spec I already have work for it too, since I'll mod it to semi auto fire? But what if I wanted to specialize in the thunderbolt, what would I pick then? Just a specialization in that one gun? Chummer lets me type in something in that spot so I'm assuming that's how you do it. Really appreciate you keeping up on the thread, emsquared, your answers to all my questions are really helping me get this all figured out. Thanks! And of course, anyone else that has any input is more than welcome!

[emsquared]

Gonna study the mods tonight and try to pick something, I guess, that was about half of why I picked the ammo skip to begin with, 'cause I was trying to fill up the cap, and already had the stuff i actually -wanted-. I guess with so many to pick from I should be able to figure out something. But at the very least I'm back where I started as far as capacity, but with better effects, so that's a win.

There's always some fun Advanced Safeties. Something else you might consider if you're gonna do a Warhawk as your primary weapon; start with the Revolver Silencer (4 Slots - yikes), SA Firing Mod (1 Slot), Personalized Grip (1 Slot), and then have a Top-Mount, External Smartgun Accessory, you could even slap an IR Flashlight or something on the Under-Mount. You don't actually need the EF, if you have a Silencer, and the Grip takes care of the SA RC...

Oh yeah, one question I had was about specialization if I get these new guns. Now, like I said before, the warhawk will probably be my new main gun, and obviously the specialization for that would be Revolvers, no matter what I do to it it's always gonna be a revolver, so that one's easy. Or would the semi-auto spec I already have work for it too, since I'll mod it to semi auto fire? But what if I wanted to specialize in the thunderbolt, what would I pick then? Just a specialization in that one gun? Chummer lets me type in something in that spot so I'm assuming that's how you do it. Really appreciate you keeping up on the thread, emsquared, your answers to all my questions are really helping me get this all figured out. Thanks! And of course, anyone else that has any input is more than welcome!

It's really a GM call with the Specs, there's no logical reason as to why someone would be better with revolvers than SAs, so whatever you do it's gonna be an abstraction. Personally as GM, I have Lights in that list too, and just the Heavy's still split into Revolvers and SAs. Splitting it into specific weapons is too specialized and too restrictive, IMO. Even with an SA Firing mod, I'd still have the Warhawk be in the Revolver category, and even though the Thunderbolt fires BF only, I'd have it be in the SA category - again, it's just a part of the abstraction to balance out the cost/benefit.

And no problem, I love character creation and tweaking gear and kits, the list of crap I've made on Chummer is ridiculous.

[Jmix421]

Aw man, now I want 2 warhawks and 2 thunderbolts, the ones I made -and- the ones you made! Though I guess I'm gaining more than I'm losing the way you set them up. Something to look into for sure.