[phydaux42]

I'm scrolling through the 5th ed PDF (I can't WAIT until I can get my hands on the hardcopy next month) and I'm at a loss as to what comlinks can actually DO.

What sorts of programs available?  Is there IC available for comlinks?  It talks about upgrading the firewall, but I can't find rules for firewalls anywhere.

Help?

[Crunch]

Check the "Matrix Actions For The Non Hacker" sidebar on p 222. In addition a comlink ought to be able to do any matrix action that uses data processing or firewall (like control device or trace icon).

[RHat]

Commlinks cannot run programs, which is actually sborthand for "cyberprograms"; the actual rules printed programs require the resources of a cyberdeck.

[Aaron]

Technically, the commlink is already running programs--lots of them--all of which make up their Data Processing and Firewall ratings. As RHat mentioned, cyberprograms are something different.

[Xenon]

So you need a "restricted" cyberdeck to run a "legal" browse program. Interesting.

[Aaron]

So you need a "restricted" cyberdeck to run a "legal" browse program. Interesting.

Sort of. You need a "restricted" cyberdeck to run a legal Browse cyberprogram that's designed to leverage the extra power in a cyberdeck. Your commlink has a browser, probably several, but they're not the same as Browse. Think of cyberprograms as the equivalent of 2013 programs that utilize the GPU for extra power.

[MadBear]

I just brought this up in another thread, but I just noticed a gross disparity between the Matrix stats of a Commlink and a Cyberdeck. An 8,000 Nuyen Commlink has a better Firewall AND a better Matrix Condition Monitor than a Cyberdeck that costs 125k.
It's easier to hack into a Hermes Chariot than a Fairlight Caliban? I know Cyberdecks have both more flexibility than a Commlink, and have the Attack and Sleaze Attributes, but for a device that costs well over 100k MORE, you'd think you would get a better product. Cyberdecks should be able to take a LOT more damage than even the best Commlinks, and should be a LOT more difficult to hack.
Unless I'm missing something?
Commlinks have both Data Processing and Firewall equal to their Device Rating, p 222. Defending against a Brute Force for either device is Will+Firewall, so you are better off with a Commlink. Data Spike is Int+Firewall. An Azteca 200 Commlink has a Device Rating of 2, which means it can only take 9 boxes of Matrix Damage, while a Transys Avalon has a Device Rating of 6, so it has a Firewall of 6(Compared to the max of 5 for the Azteca), AND can take 11 boxes of Matrix Damage. Explai to me how a 5,000 Y piece of electronics is more sturdy and solidly built than a 110,000 Y device?

[ZombieAcePilot]

Cutting edge doesn't equate to reliability. If you take the best cyberdeck and face it off vs the best commlink (both acquirable at creation. aka 12 avail.) you see that the commlink has rating 6 vs the decks rating 4. This imparts one more matrix condition box. However the deck has 4 stats at 7, 6, 5, 4 vs the links 6 & 6. So right off the bat the deck has the option of higher matrix attributes deck (not to mention that the link doesn't even get two of the stats a deck can).

Also of note is that there is no current rule anywhere (at least that I can find) that allows links to run programs. Perhaps their OS is already running programs included in its device rating. Granted it may be a developer oversight that program limit wasn't stated... but at this point we don't know that. I personally think adding programs to normal comlinks would be somewhat boring if they had a limit equal to rating as some people have suggested. They could simply run every single standard program. Makes choosing which ones to run a non-choice and takes away the point of having them (in my mind at least).

All that aside, I think the cost is a tax for getting to play a decker, the same as cyber is for street sams. Anything which lowers the money at creation (street level rules) favors magic over tech, which to me seems like a shame.

[MadBear]

Cutting edge doesn't equate to reliability. If you take the best cyberdeck and face it off vs the best commlink (both acquirable at creation. aka 12 avail.) you see that the commlink has rating 6 vs the decks rating 4. This imparts one more matrix condition box. However the deck has 4 stats at 7, 6, 5, 4 vs the links 6 & 6. So right off the bat the deck has the option of higher matrix attributes deck (not to mention that the link doesn't even get two of the stats a deck can).

You are equating a 345,000 Nuyen piece of equipment to one that costs 8,000, with roughly comparable stats(though the Commlink can't attack back, which implies the Attack and Sleaze attributes are worth well over 150,000 Y each). Cost is more comparable than Availability, as Nuyen is a resource from character creation and more Nuyen means lower Skills or Attributes, Availability doesn't enter into it.
I know Cyberdecks are supposed to be cutting edge, and not at all common, that you are paying all that extra Nuyen for the ability to pretty much make the Matrix your own personal playground, and I'm mostly ok with the cost. What I don't like is that they are not anywhere near as defensible. Most of the affordable Decks will give you a Firewall between 1 and 5, depending on how you allocate your resources. IMHO they should have much higher Device Ratings at the very least. I don't know how to fix this problem though: I would not suggest lowering the Device Rating of Commlinks or they become too easy to Mark, nor would I suggest increasing the Attribute Array as it would then make Decks too powerful on offense, which would have the same effect on making things too easy to Mark.
So I guess all I can come up with is increasing the Device Rating to be better than comparable Commlinks, and would lower cost by about half on the lower end Decks while keeping the 1 Mil cost for the top of the line.
And we need rules for both Scratch Built Decks(like we do for RCCs) AND for custom built Decks.

[ZombieAcePilot]

Nothing says defense like the ability to hide (which all but requires sleaze). Not to mention that decks can slot programs to raise their stats. Even if I dumped down to a 4 (which is the lowest stat on the best starting deck), I can still have a 5 firewall with a program. So I'd be only 1 below the best starting link.

And if you really can't stand the cost then play a technomancer or don't be a matrix character. Whining about costs doesn't make them cheaper.

[Redwulfe]

Just a quick question. I haven't got through the full matrix chapter yet, but a friend was mentioning this to me and I wanted to see about it. Can I take my Rating six comlink as the master and slave my deck to it to use the comlink's firewall and then can use the decks lowest attribute in the firewall slot. so using the 7 6 5 4 deck I could put the 4 in firewall since the comlink is the defense point for the network and I get its 6 firewall for defense? I hope I explained that correctly.

Red

[ZombieAcePilot]

As per the letter of the rule it appears as if you can. That said I don't know if you would want to. A device is either a master, or a slave. It can't be both. So if you slave the deck you can't use it as a master to help hide other devices. Personally, I wouldn't take that route unless I was using a really low end deck. Besides, what self respecting decker would use a commlink to protect his deck. You might lose some rep over that one.

[ZeConster]

The strength of cyberdecks doesn't lie in their stats, but in being able to hack - plus that 345k cyberdeck can get +1 to Attack, Sleaze, Data Processing and Firewall for a measly 660¥ extra, and that's only if you're too lazy to use any "+2 to this attribute for one specific purpose" programs.

[Aaron]

Also, if you've got a deck and I've got a commlink, then the only offensive action I can take against you with my commlink is to hit you with it.

[ZeConster]

The deck's bigger, though, so it probably does more damage.