[adzling]

Right, isn't that the RPC mod description?

Electrochromic is the mod you need to change to specific patterns you define.

Either it's not present on the suit (it's not mentioned anywhere I can see) or the feature was not included in the crunch by mistake.

Which do you think it is?

[Ghost Rigger]

RPC only changes the outside in relation to the background (i.e. predator mode) it does not permit you to alter it on purpose to reflect imagined clothing.

Strictly speaking you would need the Electrochromic armor mod to do that.

If RPC can change colors quickly enough, and in such a variety of colors, to function as Predator camo, then it's hardware can do anything electrochromic clothing can do, if you have the correct software to go with it.

Also that RPC cape is going to be pretty shit compared to a full suit of RPC, especially while your moving (and the cape is just flowing behind you and not hiding jack shit).

Think less cape and more military poncho.

Right, isn't that the RPC mod description?

That is the description of the Sleeping Tiger itself. So we know that the Sleeping Tiger can do Predator camo AND the basic functions of electrochromic clothing.

Either it's not present on the suit (it's not mentioned anywhere I can see) or the feature was not included in the crunch by mistake.

Which do you think it is?

I think that RPC is electrochromic clothing plus, and the crunch wasn't clear enough in spelling that out.

[adzling]

while RPC may be capable with the correct software it's not part of RPC.

There is a specific mod for that, it's called Electrochromic.

So this would indicate you need that mod and that RPC does not do that (it's not mentioned in the RPC description).

There are many examples like this in the tech world (well it could do that in theory but in practice it's not designed to/ cannot do that).


Regarding RPC cape, it's clearly described as a cape, not a poncho. So that's just your imagination.


The description quoted is jackpoint text, not crunch nor description of the armor itself but rather opinions that are not actually rules nor cannon.

[Ghost Rigger]

There are many examples like this in the tech world (well it could do that in theory but in practice it's not designed to/ cannot do that).

But I could make it do that.

Regarding RPC cape, it's clearly described as a cape, not a poncho. So that's just your imagination.

You must be thinking of a very different item:

RUTHENIUM POLYMER CLOAK
A hooded cloak infused with ruthenium polymer fibers. Originally developed for military snipers and spotters who needed to remain concealed and stationary for an extended period of time. The sensor suite that replicates the surroundings has difficulty adapting to the rippling of the cloak while the wearer is in motion. Because of this, the cloak is not as effective while moving as RP modified armor, but it is still fully effective standing still. These cloaks are also sometimes used to conceal small, strategically important objects. Availability 14F, Rating 1 - 4, 4,000¥ per rating. The base modifier to a Perception Test to spot the wearer is –(Rating + 2) while stationary and –(Rating – 1) while moving. (That is right, a Rating 1 RP cloak offers no benefit while moving. You just look like you are wearing a poncho made of static. Which may be fashionable in some places, as there is no accounting for Sixth World taste.) An RP cloak has no capacity for any additional armor modifications.

The description quoted is jackpoint text, not crunch nor description of the armor itself but rather opinions that are not actually rules nor cannon.

"The Sleeping Tiger looks terrible" is an opinion. "The Sleeping Tiger has an upgraded color change system and an available camo feature" is an objective fact.

[adzling]

thanks for the cloak text ;-)

ok so then:

can RPC work like electrochromic: no

can RPC cloak work while not moving: yes

does sleeping tiger include electrochromic: no (waiting on reference that opposes this)

So far my comments stand, with the adjustment that the cloak is more like a poncho but still only works when you're not moving per my original post.

[Ghost Rigger]

The description of the Sleeping Tiger says it has a color change system - a superior system to that found on older versions. Either it has eletrochromic, or RPC is electrochromic plus.

[Ajax]

You misunderstand me. When I say that the Sleeping Tiger looks like garbage, I don't mean that it looks bad, I mean that it literally has the appearance of industrial trash. Just read the description of it:

Might the new versions of Sleeping Tiger look a bit different? Maybe. But I'd still think that it's something that makes you look like a Redmond pimp.

Funny, for some that you say “literally has the appearance of industrial trash[,]” the description you include doesn’t say anything about it looking like industrial trash: figuratively or literally. It’s a blend of boardroom chic and post-punk fashion... Sounds like something Madonna or Joan Jett might have worn back in the Golden Age of MTV. So, a bit out-there by real world 2019 standards, but quite fashionable in the fictional Sixth World.

Also that RPC cape is going to be pretty shit compared to a full suit of RPC, especially while your moving (and the cape is just flowing behind you and not hiding jack shit).

The base modifier to a Perception Test to spot the wearer of a Ruthenium Polymer Cloak is –(Rating + 2) while stationary and –(Rating - 1) while moving. Maximum rating for the Cloak is four... Given the cost difference between the Sleeping Tiger and the Executive Suite/Cloak combo is minimal, I still prefer the pairing.

Yes, you’re at a slight disadvantage when moving, but there’s ways to mitigate that such as, y’know, not moving! Or at doing so stealthily anyway. If hiding behind a wall is good, then hiding behind a wall whilst 95% invisible is even better!

[Ghost Rigger]

Funny, for some that you say “literally has the appearance of industrial trash[,]” the description you include doesn’t say anything about it looking like industrial trash: figuratively or literally. It’s a blend of boardroom chic and post-punk fashion... Sounds like something Madonna or Joan Jett might have worn back in the Golden Age of MTV. So, a bit out-there by real world 2019 standards, but quite fashionable in the fictional Sixth World.

Maybe you see wire mesh and chainlink fencing as fashionable material choices. Maybe when you look at a PVC suit, the shine, texture and wrinkles in the PVC don't ever so slightly remind you of garbage bags. But at the end of the day, the Sleeping Tiger was made to invoke the look of SINless orks and trolls who have to wear garbage because they're so poor. So on some level, it must look like garbage. Fancy, expensive garbage that looks better than it should, but garbage none the less.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Great.  Now I'm never going to NOT see Mugatu's Derelicte line whenever someone says their character wears Sleeping Tiger.

[Ajax]

Designer: Junya Watanabe


Designer: Junya Watanabe


Designer: Junya Watanabe


Designer: Chanel


Designer: Donatella Versacé

The fashion industry can (and frequently has) co-opted looks developed by the poor, the dispossessed,  and other subcultures and turned it into haute couture. Between 2010’s there actually has been a small fad amongst haute couture designers for a look inspired by the early Punk Rock scene. All of the above pictures are from runway shows between 2012 and 2017. (Afro Futurism and Neo Primitivism seem to be the hot styles now.)

So, yes, I can look as disparate materials like leather, silk, PVC, and wool all being part of the same garment; accessories made of wire, iron, brass, and plastic; with odd angles and strange cuts... and see it as high fashion. God knows that I’d never dress like this (I’ve got a Saville Row soul and a Men’s Warehouse budget), but I’m not trying to impress the people who run the 2080’s Best Dressed List.

[kyoto kid]

Would make it slightly less über! From a game rather than RP perspective, I’m happy enough with that, never did much like the ‘best piece of gear’ thing, there should be pros and cons! Now I need to go and fix my char generator

I agree with this. Personally, I think that high-fashion armor should rarely go over armor 9, and even the most expensive discreet suits should not go higher than 12. Also, a custom-fitted fashion-statement which costs more than some cars should be easily traced with basic detective-work. With all the details that the good guys could squeeze from the tailor, you might as well have left behind a card with your (fake) SIN on it.

Having fashion-armor with a higher rating than the same armor rating as FBA just annihilates any sense that there's balance or a trade-off.

..Sleeping Tiger has an armour value of 13, FBA (without the helmet and it would be silly not to have a helmet as it costs only 500¥ more) has an armour value of 15/18 with the helmet.  It also has a higher capacity: (ST only has 10 whereas FBA has 15), and has the option of full chemseal to protect in hostile environments. FBA will also allow you to add complete head to toe RP coating (-4 to perception pools), and even accept the YNT Softweave modification to increase capacity (at a much lower cost than Sleeping Tiger).

So there is still a big incentive for getting FBA when you have the funds and contact who can get it for you at cost.

[kyoto kid]

...since Vashon also makes the Synergist Longocoat one could pair that with Sleeping Tiger for a total Armour of 16 although you would lose the RP advantage unless you ditched the overcoat (or got RP 3 for it as well).  Not a bad way to armour up though without looking like a threat.

In previous editions, Form Fitting armour could be worn under any other armour and offered a bit more protection, however that quality has been removed.  Now it's just intended to be worn under regular clothing, though still helpful if having to wear something, like a custodian's jumpsuit, to infiltrate a facility.

[Michael Chandra]

You wear the Longcoat in combat, then take it off when it becomes time to make a run for it. Works for me.

[Ajax]

I've always felt that the Sleeping Tiger's Capacity was dramatically out of line compared to other armors in the same "tactical businesswear" category.

The Armante Suit or the Armante Dress is Armor 8 / Capacity 4; the various Mortimer of London (non-coat) suits and dresses have an average        Armor 8 / Capacity 5; the various Vashon Island Ace of Whatever suits have an average Armor 7 / Capacity 7; Vashon Island's Synergist Business Suit is Armor 9 / Capacity 5; Zoé's Executive Suite is Armor 12 / Capacity 4; Actioneer Business Clothes are Armor 8 / Capacity 8; and the Sleeping Tiger is Armor 13 / Capacity 10!

I mean, I get that the more expensive a piece of gear is, the better it should be... But 10 Capacity plus Ruthenium Polymer Coating (Rating 3) and a holster built-in just seems outrageous. I mean, pretty much the only thing that Second Skin (Armor 6 / Capacity 2) has going for it is the Ruthenium Polymer Coating (Rating 4) and it's a mere ¥1,500 cheaper than the easier to obtain Sleeping Tiger!

If it were up to me (and it isn't) I'd reduce the Sleeping Tiger's Ruthenium Polymer Coating to Rating 1 or 2, slash the Capacity in half, and bump the availability to 14.

[Michael Chandra]

Don't forget the Ruthenium is less useful when it doesn't cover the full body.