[jamesfirecat]

Actually, here is the real no win situation for how you use grenades super effectively if wireless is not an option.


Runner A shoots spread grenades on time fuses and they land where he wants them to after holding his action so that he goes after the target at target's iniative score minus one.


Runner B shoots the target with S&S ammo.

S&S shots which deal a box of physical or stun drops five from the targets initiative score.

Target does not get to act again before grenades go off.

[MagusRogue]

Q. Why does Uncouth (and possibly other negative qualities) affect Intimidate? Being rude and impulsive should have no affect on how intimidating you are; in fact, it probably should make a better case for you being more intimidating, not less.

Q. I know this isn't a real question but could it be possible to find the rules on Augmented Attribute Maximums easier to find, say perhaps on the Metatype Table? It took me an hour to find it until I got to page 94 and dug in the text. It's mentioned in TON of places, but finding the actual rules was incredibly difficult.

[RHat]

Q. Why does Uncouth (and possibly other negative qualities) affect Intimidate? Being rude and impulsive should have no affect on how intimidating you are; in fact, it probably should make a better case for you being more intimidating, not less.

Having come across a few people who are completely and totally inept at it, let me just say that intimidation is a far more subtle thing than that.

[All4BigGuns]

Q. Why does Uncouth (and possibly other negative qualities) affect Intimidate? Being rude and impulsive should have no affect on how intimidating you are; in fact, it probably should make a better case for you being more intimidating, not less.

Having come across a few people who are completely and totally inept at it, let me just say that intimidation is a far more subtle thing than that.

It can be, but that would be for someone who isn't normally that imposing to intimidate someone. If the big Uncouth Troll snarls at you and hefts his Troll-sized combat axe, that's pretty darn intimidating and not at all subtle.

[MagusRogue]

Like All4BigGuns said. Being rude should not keep you from being able to frighten people off.

[Crunch]

I've always assumed that intimidate covered both being frightening, and getting the desired result by being frightening.

Getting shot because the guard is afraid of you is not a succesful intimidate check.

[RHat]

Q. Why does Uncouth (and possibly other negative qualities) affect Intimidate? Being rude and impulsive should have no affect on how intimidating you are; in fact, it probably should make a better case for you being more intimidating, not less.

Having come across a few people who are completely and totally inept at it, let me just say that intimidation is a far more subtle thing than that.

It can be, but that would be for someone who isn't normally that imposing to intimidate someone. If the big Uncouth Troll snarls at you and hefts his Troll-sized combat axe, that's pretty darn intimidating and not at all subtle.

Not intimidating, per se - imposing, sure.  Something you need to be careful how you deal with, sure.  But a non-intimidated person is going to respond to that in any number of ways, which may not be the specific thing the troll wants - they might secretly signal for help, they might shoot you, they might run away instead of handing over their valuables, etc.

Besides, Uncouth isn't just about being rude - it's about being unaware of how to achieve a desired effect upon another person, so your intimidation attempt boils down to "I'm big and I'm an asshole", which is usually (in my subjective and incomplete experience) funny rather than intimidating.

[Critias]

Someone with Uncouth isn't just ill-mannered, they "have trouble interacting with others."  Maybe they don't even understand what would be intimidating to someone, maybe they stumble over their words so they look like a baby having a tantrum instead of being scary, maybe they don't pick up on social cues and try to intimidate the weasel of a gang instead of the gang leader, maybe all kinds of stuff.

They can still stand there and be a menacing presence for someone else to make an Intimidation test (the fast-talker who always knows what to say and how to say it just thumbs over his shoulder to a hulking brute looming behind him), they can still offset the Uncouth penalty (and no doubt a low Charisma, and no doubt a not-too-great skill) with modifiers for being big and scary...but...well...if you want to be good at making people do what you want (which is what Intimidation checks are for), don't take the Negative Quality that boils down to "you're terrible at making people do what you want."

[RHat]

They can still stand there and be a menacing presence for someone else to make an Intimidation test (the fast-talker who always knows what to say and how to say it just thumbs over his shoulder to a hulking brute looming behind him)

"We have a Hulk", basically.

[MacAnu]

See Thog in OotS for the "strong but not intimidating" archetype.

[Psikerlord]

Actually, here is the real no win situation for how you use grenades super effectively if wireless is not an option.


Runner A shoots spread grenades on time fuses and they land where he wants them to after holding his action so that he goes after the target at targets iniative score minus one.


Runner B shoots the target with S&S ammo.

S&S shots which deal a box of physical or stun drops five from the targets initiative score.

Target does not get to act again before grenades go off.

not technically an option, but could be houseruled. more realistic, but do u really want more realistic grenades...

[shinryu]

jamming is also beaten via using motion-sensor/impact fusing. if i read the rules correctly, if you hit versus a standard defense roll, you do damage (plus hits!), and you only worry about scatter if you miss totally (in which case you might still hit your target). i would argue a direct hit should be treated as other explosions and halve armor, but that's a side point.

to insure hittingness + chunky salsa effect, use with MGL-12 for super happy murder time fun time. nothing quite like an SA burst that does 24P damage, -4 AP and -4 to dodge. nearly as good as a guided missile and much cheaper too. more humane runners may prefer to lay down a trio of flashbangs for 15S AP -6  instead.

actual question: what does the suppression effect affect? does it include defense rolls? there's a really nasty tactic of laying down suppressive and then having other shooters pick off the targets if that's the case.

[jamesfirecat]

Actually, here is the real no win situation for how you use grenades super effectively if wireless is not an option.


Runner A shoots spread grenades on time fuses and they land where he wants them to after holding his action so that he goes after the target at targets iniative score minus one.


Runner B shoots the target with S&S ammo.

S&S shots which deal a box of physical or stun drops five from the targets initiative score.

Target does not get to act again before grenades go off.

not technically an option, but could be houseruled. more realistic, but do u really want more realistic grenades...

Why isn't it an option, did I misread/misunderstand the rules somewhere with this plan?

[jamesfirecat]

jamming is also beaten via using motion-sensor/impact fusing. if i read the rules correctly, if you hit versus a standard defense roll, you do damage (plus hits!), and you only worry about scatter if you miss totally (in which case you might still hit your target). i would argue a direct hit should be treated as other explosions and halve armor, but that's a side point.

to insure hittingness + chunky salsa effect, use with MGL-12 for super happy murder time fun time. nothing quite like an SA burst that does 24P damage, -4 AP and -4 to dodge. nearly as good as a guided missile and much cheaper too. more humane runners may prefer to lay down a trio of flashbangs for 15S AP -6  instead.

actual question: what does the suppression effect affect? does it include defense rolls? there's a really nasty tactic of laying down suppressive and then having other shooters pick off the targets if that's the case.

Adding to this' does suppressive fire decrease the pool used to avoid being hit by suppressive fire, and does it still take away form someone's pool if they decide not try and dodge the suppressive fire but just take their hits from it?

[ZeConster]

Actually, here is the real no win situation for how you use grenades super effectively if wireless is not an option.

Runner A shoots spread grenades on time fuses and they land where he wants them to after holding his action so that he goes after the target at targets iniative score minus one.

Runner B shoots the target with S&S ammo.
S&S shots which deal a box of physical or stun drops five from the targets initiative score.

Target does not get to act again before grenades go off.

not technically an option, but could be houseruled. more realistic, but do u really want more realistic grenades...

Why isn't it an option, did I misread/misunderstand the rules somewhere with this plan?

I think timer grenades only detonate in the next Combat Turn (not next Initiative Pass), and with 10 less Initiative than the score you had when you fired them, so that leaves a lot of time for the target to escape even if hit with SnS ammo.