[Xenon]

Qualities (like Aptitude) are  Step 4
Skills are Step 5

[All4BigGuns]

When raising Attributes with the leftover Karma, do increases provide you with free points for Knowledge/Language Skills or Contacts? So if I take 5 Intuition and 1 Logic, then use 25 karma to raise Logic to 3, do I get (5+1)*2 or (5+3)*2 Knowledge/Language points?

Pretty sure it does not.

Reason for that is that in SR5, unlike SR4, you need to develop your character step by step. Step 2 assign your attributes. You must spend all attributes in this step. You cannot save any attributes. The attributes give you points for knowledge and language skill that you spend in step 5. In step 5 you must spend all your knowledge and language points. You cannot save any points.
- Unlikely that spending karma in step 7 will give you more points to spend in step 5...

But it isn't explicit mentioned in the rule book. Good question for the FAQ.

By using your strange logic, one would not be allowed to go ahead and get the gear they want before doing anything else (a common tactic--from what I've seen--in all editions of the game to help one determine just how much in Resources they actually need to spend for).

[ZeConster]

Qualities (like Aptitude) are  Step 4
Skills are Step 5

But attributes are Step 2, so a strict order would require you to spend 25-55 Karma (depending on your normal max) in Step 7 if you take Exceptional Attribute and want to start with the Exceptional attribute hardcapped, instead of a single Attribute Point.

[Elizara Dane]

Qualities (like Aptitude) are  Step 4
Skills are Step 5

But attributes are Step 2, so a strict order would require you to spend 25-55 Karma (depending on your normal max) in Step 7 if you take Exceptional Attribute and want to start with the Exceptional attribute hardcapped, instead of a single Attribute Point.

I was asking myself the question of if the priority allocations steps are all "you spend these points now or never, then go to next step" then I realized that you choose magic or resonance after choosing metatype and the rules state that special point garnered from metatype choice may be spent on Edge, Magic or Resonance (the latter two having not had their step and thus don't exist on the character). Then, on P.66 "...(the player may purchase either Lucky or Exceptional Attribute, but not both). Even if one of these qualities is purchased, the player must still spend the attribute points/Karma to raise the attribute to that new limit. With Exceptional Attribute, you can end up with a maximum Magic or Resonance rating of 7 when starting the game (before initiation or submersion)". Again, a rule that references spending points out of phase.

[Xenon]

Some points need to be spend before you move on (physical attributes, mental attributes, skill points... might be more)

Some points do not (special attributes might one example (you just need to spend it before chargen is over but does not HAVE to spend it during step 2), karma can carry over to after chargen, some of unspent money can flow over as starting cash... might be more)

[Elizara Dane]

Some points need to be spend before you move on (physical attributes, mental attributes, skill points... might be more)

Some points do not (special attributes might one example (you just need to spend it before chargen is over but does not HAVE to spend it during step 2), karma can carry over to after chargen, some of unspent money can flow over as starting cash... might be more)

P.66 "A character must spend all attribute points during character creation". There is mention that these points have to be spent in a particular phase of creation.

P.88 "All skill and skill group points must be spent at the time of character creation."

It looks like points are all fluid up until the character hits the table. This makes some sense because raising a stat from, lets say 6, to a 7 is prohibitively expensive karma-wise.

[Xenon]

..mm
if so, then we might be back to the original question
will spending karma on logic at end of chargen raise your number of points for knowledge skills

[Elizara Dane]

..mm
if so, then we might be back to the original question
will spending karma on logic at end of chargen raise your number of points for knowledge skills

Based on the evidence I would have to vote yes. It looks like all pools of points are fluid up until the moment a characters first game starts. Of course, one could just as easily say "I lower X stat by 1 and raise Logic by 1 using my points allocated to my attribute pool" then go raise X stat with karma instead 

[Carmody]

Action phase (p. 163): it is stated that if a character does not cover the whole declared distance the movement penalties still apply. Does the movement bonuses to defense still apply also?

[Ghoulfodder]

When raising Attributes with the leftover Karma, do increases provide you with free points for Knowledge/Language Skills or Contacts? So if I take 5 Intuition and 1 Logic, then use 25 karma to raise Logic to 3, do I get (5+1)*2 or (5+3)*2 Knowledge/Language points?

Pretty sure it does not.

Reason for that is that in SR5, unlike SR4, you need to develop your character step by step. Step 2 assign your attributes. You must spend all attributes in this step. You cannot save any attributes. The attributes give you points for knowledge and language skill that you spend in step 5. In step 5 you must spend all your knowledge and language points. You cannot save any points.
- Unlikely that spending karma in step 7 will give you more points to spend in step 5...

But it isn't explicit mentioned in the rule book. Good question for the FAQ.

By using your strange logic, one would not be allowed to go ahead and get the gear they want before doing anything else (a common tactic--from what I've seen--in all editions of the game to help one determine just how much in Resources they actually need to spend for).

You can plan it obviously, but it's pretty clear the intent is you follow the process step by step for what you can do. Working out free skill points for Knowledge skills and allocating them comes before finishing touches. Therefore it's logical that  raising your Logic or Intuition with Karma doesn't affect your free skill points.

Either way it's hardly game breaking though, so if you wanna raise it and get your extra couple of skill points I don't see why you shouldn't just go ahead and knock yourself out, providing your GM and the rest of the players don't have a problem with it.

[ZeConster]

Biggest counterexample in the book for this "you must build your character 1 Step at a time, in that specific order" theory: Rob gives his character 11 Strength in Step 2 because he plans to take the Exceptional Attribute (Strength) Positive Quality in Step 4. And no, the "the gamemaster has given Rob permission to take this quality at character creation" bit doesn't mean the GM allowed him to sequence-break: it's there because the description of Exceptional Attribute states it requires express GM permission.

[Typhus]

Here's ones I struggled to find at first with the chargen section:

 - You also get Cha X 3 in more Karma just for contacts, but you can't spend it elsewhere
 - You can only max one stat at chargen
 - Knowledge skills are (INT + LOG) x 2 in free Knowledge Skill points.
 - Max of +4 on cyber boosts to any one attribute with gear
 - You only get one attack action per pass, Simple or otherwise.
 
Neat stuff:

* Cold damage can be used to outright shatter armor.
* There are no limits on defense checks or soak rolls.
* Mana Bolt/Stun Bolt are no longer king of casting.  I recommend Control Actions/Thoughts so far as the Go-To Troll Stopper spells now.

Things I am finding pretty silly:

* Trauma patches are somehow wireless. Somehow it releases chemicals *better* that way?
--Fun fact: If it's online, that also means you can hack a trauma patch, if you wanted to.  Or at least brick it. 
* Area spells use Grenade scatter rules to land instead of hitting where you aimed them now.

Things that would have helped:

* A picture that illustrates how grids, hosts, icons and systems and personas, etc. all come together.  Even one would have been great.  All that text and not one single image of what it looks like to be on a grid.  Oversight?
 
* A master character creation chart.  Every rule in one place on one page. 

* All chargen rules broken out in tables or highlighted somehow.  Compare to the older 1 and 2e rulebooks to see my point.  A similar feel to the pages would have been well received. 

[Michael Chandra]

- Max of +4 on cyber boosts to any one attribute with gear

Intended: Max of +4 on any attribute from any source unless explicitly stated otherwise (Wireless Wired Reflexes + Reaction Enhancers).

[Xenon]

Defense checks that include a skill still have limit. For example of you use Dodge you add gymnastics dice but also get a physical limit.

+4 to attributes is not limited to cyber boosts. It is an universal limit to augment attributes (drugs, magic, powers...) that can be ignored of a boost explicit state so. Like reaction enhancers vs wired reflexes.
edit. as Michael already said

[FastJack]

I approve of this thread. It shall be sticky.

*NOTE* If you post in this thread, it's to list a clarification of a rule ONLY (and preferably with a link to said clarification like Imp did). This is NOT a place for questions (see the Errata/FAQ threads).