Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Homebrew PACKs => Topic started by: FastJack on <03-17-11/1011:00>
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The Metavariants listed in Runner's Companion have the following costs for the PACKs metatype kit:
Human Metavariants
Nartaki 25 BP
Dwarf Metavariants
Gnome 15 BP
Harumen 40 BP
Koborokuru 25 BP
Menehune 15 BP
Elf Metavariants
Dryad 45 BP
Night Ones 35 BP
Wakyambi 35 BP
Xapiri Thëpë 45 BP
Ork Metavariants
Hobgoblin 0 BP
Ogre 0 BP
Oni 5 BP
Satyr 5 BP
Troll Metavariants
Cyclops -5 BP
Fomori -5 BP
Giant -10 BP
Minotaur -5 BP
Infected Metatypes
Metatype | BP | BOD | AGI | REA | STR | CHA | INT | LOG | WIL | EDG |
Bandersnatch | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -2 | 0 | -1 | 2 | 0 |
Loup-Garou | 5 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 4 | -2 | 0 | -1 | 1 | 0 |
Ghoul | 5 | 4 | 0 | 2 | 3 | -2 | 0 | -1 | 2 | 0 |
Goblin* | -5 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | -2 | 0 | -2 | 2 | 0 |
Fomóraig | 25 | 3 | 0 | 1 | 3 | -2 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 |
Banshee | 65 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 |
Wendigo | 90 | 0 | -1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Dzoo-Noo-Qua | 70 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 1 | -1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 |
Vampire | 100 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 |
Nosferatu | 150 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 0 |
Sapient Critter Metatypes
Metatype | BP | BOD | AGI | REA | STR | CHA | INT | LOG | WIL | EDG |
Centaur | 10 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | -1 | -1 | 0 | 0 |
Naga | 10 | 2 | -2 | 1 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 |
Pixie** | -25 | -3 | 2 | 2 | -3 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 0 |
Sasquatch | 40 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Shapeshifter Metatypes
Metatype | BP | BOD | AGI | REA | STR | CHA | INT | LOG | WIL | EDG |
Fox | 20 | -1 | 1 | 1 | -2 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Wolf | 55 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Eagle | 60 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0 |
Leopard/Jaguar | 25 | 2 | 4 | 1 | 1 | -1 | -1 | -1 | -1 | 0 |
Seal | 60 | 3 | 3 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 0 |
Tiger/Lion | 45 | 3 | 4 | 1 | 2 | 0 | -1 | -1 | -1 | 0 |
Bear*** | 20 | 6 | -2 | -1 | 6 | 0 | -1 | -1 | -1 | 0 |
*Due to their Logic adjustment, Goblins DO NOT qualify for the following Attribute Kits as published:
Brawler | Tank |
Ranged Shooter | Bladesman |
**Due to their Body/Strength adjustments, Pixies DO NOT qualify for the following Attribute Kits as published:
Ranged Shooter | Bladesman | Unit Commander | Combat Mage | High Mage |
Newly Awakened | Wise Shaman | Faceman | Wheelman | Budding Technomancer |
Resonance Prophet | Investigator | Jack of All Trades | Arcane Investigator | Ranged Adept |
Melee Adept | Social Adept | Mystic Adept | Covert Operative |
***Due to their Agility adjustment, Bear Shapeshifters DO NOT qualify for the following Attribute Kits as published:
Combat Mage | Wise Shaman |
Faceman | Resonance Prophet |
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Fast Jack, I am curious how you get the math on the Elf and Dwarf Metavariants? I did not think their attribute differences were that large
compared to normal Elves and Dwarves?
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Fast Jack, I am curious how you get the math on the Elf and Dwarf Metavariants? I did not think their attribute differences were that large
compared to normal Elves and Dwarves?
Jeez... I'll have to hunt down the spreadsheet I used for this. I'll get back to you this evening.
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Might help to include the modifiers for the ones that are not "same as the standard race",
as well..
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Actually, looking at Runner's Companion, I just realized that the costs are purely the BP costs of the variants listed. Attribute changes are based off qualities for the variants, so I didn't include them.
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Actually, looking at Runner's Companion, I just realized that the costs are purely the BP costs of the variants listed. Attribute changes are based off qualities for the variants, so I didn't include them.
Meaning what? Dumb it down a bit, please. Or, better yet, a couple of examples. Cause I didn't catch a word of that.
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Meaning that the Build Point costs for the Variant races is a set cost, just like the base races. I only tacked on the PACK differential to the cost.
If you build a dwarf using normal Character Creation rules, it will cost you 25 BP for the race. If you build a Harumen with those rules, it will cost you 50 BP.
Under the PACKS, choosing the Dwarf PACK costs you 15 BP, 10 less than the normal cost. So the cost of the Harumen is 40 BP (or 15 + 25 for the extra abilies).
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Interesting. Now, is it explained WHY there is that difference? Like, the effects the race or infection has on the attribute package you allocated? If that were the case, then you might be able to skip the difference between base race, and metavarient... Sorry, just thinking while typing. I take it you still need the base book for other things, like what the races do other than just attribute fixing. Like a troll having +1 to reach, and natural armor.
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Just going through this, and it occured to me... A ghoul could make a HELL of a Druid.... I mean, no negative to Int, and a bonus to Will that would make most dwarves envious... Top it off with that kind of strength and body, and you have a Druid that just won't go down.... And eats you afterwards.
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Well, per my previous example, a Dwarf has Thermographic Vision, a bonus against Pathogens/Diseases and the attribute modifiers. A Harumen has Low-Light Vision, Metagenetic Improvement (Agility), Monkey Paws, Prehensile Tail, Unusual Hair (Body Hair) and the same base Dwarf attribute modifiers. The Metagenetic Improvement (Agility) means they get a +1 to their base Agility score as well.
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Meaning that the Build Point costs for the Variant races is a set cost, just like the base races. I only tacked on the PACK differential to the cost.
If you build a dwarf using normal Character Creation rules, it will cost you 25 BP for the race. If you build a Harumen with those rules, it will cost you 50 BP.
Under the PACKS, choosing the Dwarf PACK costs you 15 BP, 10 less than the normal cost. So the cost of the Harumen is 40 BP (or 15 + 25 for the extra abilies).
i thought that you only had to pay the BP cost of one not both, and that also meant you couldn't stack the bonuses from both the dwarf and variant.
if they do stack, does that mean a harumen has both low light and thermo vision?
and if not, why pay the bp for both?
RAW in runner's companion pg 71 says you only pay the BP for the variant
or am i totally missing something?
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I wasn't adding on the BP as extra, merely looking at the difference in cost between BP in character creation and applying the same difference for the PACK.
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fair enough,,
hate when i go blind like that,
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I really dont get this at all.
lets take
Pixie** -25 -3 2 2 -3 2 1 1 2 0
Sasquatch 40 5 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 0
a sasquatch would cost 90 in stats -20 in flaws (who knows what the other bonuses would be)
but lets assume 80 total bp and it costs us 40 to buy. So that nets up 40 profit.
That would imply going pixie would be cheaper to hand build?
A pixie would be better if you made it yourself. I somehow doubt that, how much are you assuming flight and concealment are worth, because if you were to make them in to qualites id say they were at least 15 bp each at least.
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I really dont get this at all.
lets take
Pixie** -25 -3 2 2 -3 2 1 1 2 0
Sasquatch 40 5 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 0
a sasquatch would cost 90 in stats -20 in flaws (who knows what the other bonuses would be)
but lets assume 80 total bp and it costs us 40 to buy. So that nets up 40 profit.
That would imply going pixie would be cheaper to hand build?
A pixie would be better if you made it yourself. I somehow doubt that, how much are you assuming flight and concealment are worth, because if you were to make them in to qualites id say they were at least 15 bp each at least.
As before, I'm basing the costs not off the specific bonuses/penalties that the race gives you, but as they created the PACKs for the other races, where it's a matter of how it stacks up to the basic stats and such. Sure, the Pixie is extremely cheap at -25 with the PACKs system, but if you use it, then you cannot use the attribute kits I listed because the adjustments would take them below the minimum attributes. So you're really restricted in the type of Pixie character you can create with PACKs.
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The PACKS metatype costs threw me at first glance too, but they are actually fairly simple. They take the base metatype cost, and you get the Attribute increases that go with it. Just like build points so far. Where the difference comes in, is that atttributes that are capped lower are actual penalties, which get subtracted from the base metatype cost. So Fastjack did it correctly. The pixie, for example, costs 35 points, and has -60 points in Attribute penalties, for a result of -25. Xapiri Thëpë cost the full 45 points, because they have no negative modifiers to bring that cost down.
One thing I would add is that the infected and some of the innately magical types would not qualify for any of the technomancer kits, since they can not take the technomancer quality.
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I am confused by the Packs why wasn't this in the Runner's Companion? I agree with what you guys are saying I am just trying to figure out why it wasn't in the book.
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It was created as a 'simplified' character creation and included as a booklet in the Runner's Toolkit.
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Just going through this, and it occured to me... A ghoul could make a HELL of a Druid.... I mean, no negative to Int, and a bonus to Will that would make most dwarves envious... Top it off with that kind of strength and body, and you have a Druid that just won't go down.... And eats you afterwards.
The ultimate in recycling ...!
Also: Pixies make scary-good spellcasters, if they pick up a Charisma tradition. Soft-cap their Will and Charisma, and you're dropping 14 dice against drain ..... no foci involved.
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And by fluff, a ghoul shaman is prettt understandable. Especially spider or rat. Spirits sustaining armor or Will buffs would make up for the ghoul's astral vulnerability, plus, being dual natured, you've got a good counter against spirits in melee.
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I had a particular ghoul PC in a game once. She was a martial arts expert who was just about to tear into a spirit, but the game dissolved before we could see how well she'd have shredded it. I kinda wish we'd have gone juuuust one more session so I'd have a hell of a story to tell. :'(