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Chrome Flesh Errata

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Bulshock

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« Reply #135 on: <07-31-15/2115:57> »
Personally, with the partial skull out, I'd houserule higher capacity for the full synth and obvious.  At least to 3/6 for them.  But that's obviously a houserule.

UnLimiTeD

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« Reply #136 on: <07-31-15/2225:03> »
Which we probably shouldn't think about here.
Can the Cyberlimb Bulk Modification be implemented aftermarket?
It's +Availability, like Customization, but the latter explicitly mentions that you can only do it when you buy it, which the Bulk Modification pointedly does not.
Still waiting on a Vector-Thrust Liminal Body.

ProfGast

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« Reply #137 on: <08-05-15/0320:20> »
Page 102: Electrical discharge bioware mentions that a user is "is no more resistant to the discharges than anyone else, and a lethal accidental discharge would very much be a problem," which I took to mean critical glitches etc when using the bioware as a weapon. 

All well and good but if you look back at page 116 to the Electroshock Orthoskin upgrade entry which in addition to granting you the ability to discharge an implanted electroshock weapon from any point in your body also says "The user gains +4 Body to resist their own electrical discharge, due to passing the shock outwards, but suffers a –2 Body penalty to resist other electrical attacks as their skin transmits the shock into their organs more efficiently."

Does this mean that any use of the Electroshock Orthoskin requires you to resist your own attack?  I can't imagine an Electrical Discharge bioware user to be at any more significant risk than say a Shock Hands user but the entry on the Orthoskin upgrade is weird.

Wakshaani

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« Reply #138 on: <08-05-15/0446:06> »
The primary difference is that a shock hand is designed to push the energy through a contained area and outwards, while the full-body discharge transmits that juice all along your entire body as a conductor. That means that you're taking as much hit as the target, but the "pass it on" style of the Orthoskin lowers your own electrical resistance, meaning that less stays with you as it moves on down the line.

Incidently, if you've never seen how much of an Electric Eel's body is dedicated to that zapper organ, you should check it out. It's crazy. Like, 80% of its volume I think. It's like a car battery with a head stuck onto it.

Darzil

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« Reply #139 on: <08-05-15/1809:17> »
Why wasn't an Augmentation Upgrade Path provided in Chromed Flesh like Magic Types got for their Foci in Street Grimore?

I've asked this before but it's a huge penalty to a Cybered characters Power Curve to rip out 10s of thousands of Nuyen in 'ware to get back 1000s while spending even more 10s of thousands of Nuyen to get new 'ware. It's pretty accepted on the forum that whatever 'ware you start with is pretty much the same 'ware you are going to be using for eternity. Going by the recommended pay scale in SR5. If ¥2000 counts as 1 Karma than every time you replace 'ware, then you are just hemorrhaging Karma to get an Upgrade. It's actually making your Character weaker not stronger by doing so. I understand that it's the Fighters role to get SHAFTED in every game system where they start out strong & quickly get surpassed on the Power Curve by Magic Types.... but giving them an even better Upgrade Path while continuing to punish heavy Augmentation Users is a bit rude really.
It looks a little like something was thought about for this. There is mention on page 19 of old cyberware now being greatly sought after, as more likely CFD free, which could explain old augmentations maybe being worth near what they were at implantation. It could sort this issue out pretty effectively.

I_AM_ZHOUL!!!

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« Reply #140 on: <08-09-15/0501:53> »
Why wasn't an Augmentation Upgrade Path provided in Chromed Flesh like Magic Types got for their Foci in Street Grimore?

I've asked this before but it's a huge penalty to a Cybered characters Power Curve to rip out 10s of thousands of Nuyen in 'ware to get back 1000s while spending even more 10s of thousands of Nuyen to get new 'ware. It's pretty accepted on the forum that whatever 'ware you start with is pretty much the same 'ware you are going to be using for eternity. Going by the recommended pay scale in SR5. If ¥2000 counts as 1 Karma than every time you replace 'ware, then you are just hemorrhaging Karma to get an Upgrade. It's actually making your Character weaker not stronger by doing so. I understand that it's the Fighters role to get SHAFTED in every game system where they start out strong & quickly get surpassed on the Power Curve by Magic Types.... but giving them an even better Upgrade Path while continuing to punish heavy Augmentation Users is a bit rude really.
It looks a little like something was thought about for this. There is mention on page 19 of old cyberware now being greatly sought after, as more likely CFD free, which could explain old augmentations maybe being worth near what they were at implantation. It could sort this issue out pretty effectively.

Don't mistake an offhand comment in the Fluff as addressing a fundamental flaw in the game mechanics of Power Curve that goes back 20 years I've been playing  (2nd edition) & was an issue in 1st as well. It's always been houseruled to keep Sams closer to the same curve as Magic users to prevent the game from devolving into Magerun (though 4th was pretty broken and only the cheese abuse possibilities through separate essence holes gave Sams any viability in that system.) But Wakshaani said he was going to look into it which is pretty good.

Darzil

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« Reply #141 on: <08-09-15/0510:43> »
I'm not. I am saying it's a piece of fluff that could be utilised as in world justification to address that fundamental flaw.

Orudeon

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« Reply #142 on: <08-24-15/2103:05> »
Quote
Myostatin Inhibitor (p.159)
It increases your Strength by 1 and reduces the Karma cost of increasing your Strength by 2. You are more susceptible to hunger, taking fatigue damage every twelve hours instead of twenty-four, with that damage increasing every three days rather than every six (p. 172, SR5).

Is this "Decrease the karma cost of increasing strength per point by 2" or "Decrease the karma cost of increasing strength by 2 per point"? One results in a 40% discount on increasing strength while the other has greatly diminishing returns e.g. increasing strength from 5 to 6 would cost 18 karma ((5 * 6) - (2 * 6)) vs increasing strength from 5 to 6 would cost 28 karma

EDIT:
Can you buy geneware in grades e.g. standard to deltaware? It wouldn't make much sense to buy Used geneware, but other than that, I can't find anything that says you can't buy it in grades.
« Last Edit: <08-24-15/2239:58> by Orudeon »

I_AM_ZHOUL!!!

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« Reply #143 on: <08-25-15/1543:57> »
Quote
Myostatin Inhibitor (p.159)
It increases your Strength by 1 and reduces the Karma cost of increasing your Strength by 2. You are more susceptible to hunger, taking fatigue damage every twelve hours instead of twenty-four, with that damage increasing every three days rather than every six (p. 172, SR5).

Is this "Decrease the karma cost of increasing strength per point by 2" or "Decrease the karma cost of increasing strength by 2 per point"? One results in a 40% discount on increasing strength while the other has greatly diminishing returns e.g. increasing strength from 5 to 6 would cost 18 karma ((5 * 6) - (2 * 6)) vs increasing strength from 5 to 6 would cost 28 karma

EDIT:
Can you buy geneware in grades e.g. standard to deltaware? It wouldn't make much sense to buy Used geneware, but other than that, I can't find anything that says you can't buy it in grades.

To your first question... it's a flat 2 Karma per Strength Increase without the Designer stating otherwise. Not that nifty...

To your 2nd question.... Yes, Geneware (& nanocybernetics) comes in Grades but geneware can't be Used just like Cultured Bioware.

Novocrane

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« Reply #144 on: <08-25-15/1923:22> »
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Cyberware and bioware implants are available in five distinct grades: standard, alphaware, betaware, deltaware, and used.
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[Nanocybernetics] are cyberware (p. 451, SR5) and follow the basic cyberware rules.  All have an Essence cost and are available in all standard cyberware grades.
Genetech provides no link to bioware as it did in 4e, no mention of grades, and even distances itself from cyberware and bioware.

Hobbes

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« Reply #145 on: <08-25-15/2136:26> »
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Cyberware and bioware implants are available in five distinct grades: standard, alphaware, betaware, deltaware, and used.
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[Nanocybernetics] are cyberware (p. 451, SR5) and follow the basic cyberware rules.  All have an Essence cost and are available in all standard cyberware grades.
Genetech provides no link to bioware as it did in 4e, no mention of grades, and even distances itself from cyberware and bioware.

Genetech doesn't mention Grades at all so RAW it's only available as listed on the table(s).  RAI and fluffwise the assorted gene techs don't seem to lend themselves to "used" very well as you can't actually rip most of them out and stick them in someone else.  Balance wise I can see not wanting Used quality Genetech as the Essence cost is already very low on most of them.     

Novocrane

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« Reply #146 on: <08-25-15/2320:22> »
Precisely. Though I could imagine having a field day with Omega grade.

I_AM_ZHOUL!!!

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« Reply #147 on: <08-26-15/0528:07> »
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Cyberware and bioware implants are available in five distinct grades: standard, alphaware, betaware, deltaware, and used.
Quote
[Nanocybernetics] are cyberware (p. 451, SR5) and follow the basic cyberware rules.  All have an Essence cost and are available in all standard cyberware grades.
Genetech provides no link to bioware as it did in 4e, no mention of grades, and even distances itself from cyberware and bioware.

Quoting Core which ONLY had Cyberware & Bioware is a bit facetious, don't you think? Chromed Flesh only addresses Gamma & Omega Grades... it doesn't address the issue, though why they didn't copy and paste it over from 4th is a mystery. Probably the word count got in the way of the Fluff would be my bet. Treating as Cultured Bioware would be appropriate & balanced until (ever?) we get it addressed. If one of the designers gets on here and says that's wrong, I'll disagree silently and do the thing I HATE the most and Houserule. But until that happens it should just be chocked up to a very minimal & slight oversight in comparison to the bleeding problem like Custom Drugs or the Modular Connector vagueness before Wakshaani explained it, which should have been given its own mini section instead of 9 sentences across 3 systems 4 of which are Fluff.

Novocrane

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« Reply #148 on: <08-26-15/0534:49> »
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Quoting Core which ONLY had Cyberware & Bioware is a bit facetious, don't you think?
Precisely not, for reasons I've already given.

I_AM_ZHOUL!!!

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« Reply #149 on: <08-26-15/0854:22> »
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Quoting Core which ONLY had Cyberware & Bioware is a bit facetious, don't you think?
Precisely not, for reasons I've already given.

What reasons? It wasn't mentioned is the entire scope of your reasoning. I conceded the point that it wasn't mentioned but that doesn't change that it could have been a simple oversight or assumption that it would be clear (Wakshaani on the Modular Connector vagueness was from that.) The only thing that you referenced was the quote from Core which only had Cyberware & Bioware then which makes it kinda facetious as the sum total of your point.

At the very least you could claim you character got the Geneware under the old system using Nanites so you can follow 4th edition Rules instead of using the new PSD retro virus method that doesn't explicitly say that it can be done in Grades. Problem through Fluff (since they gave us 2/3 of a book of it) Solved.
« Last Edit: <08-26-15/0910:36> by I_AM_ZHOUL!!! »