[忍]

Just how exactly does one avoid astral detection? Having an aura is quite the flag on the astral when you're trying to be sneaky.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Sneaking. 

The environmental modifiers are different on the Astral, but Sneaking still works.

[Reaver]

Sneaking. 

The environmental modifiers are different on the Astral, but Sneaking still works.

This.

Remember, the astral plane is not a void. It is filled with the "emotive" forms of everything in the physical world, which creates lots of places to hide.

[Mollari]

So if you're 'sneaking' whilst in the astral, does the searcher oppose with assessing or perception?

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

So if you're 'sneaking' whilst in the astral, does the searcher oppose with assessing or perception?

My view is that you still use Perception because Assessing is solely for reading (already spotted) auras.  But my view is apparently in the minority and many forumites see Assensing as duplicating Perception for the Astral plane.

[mbisber]

... many forumites see Assensing as duplicating Perception for the Astral plane.

Not duplicating exactly, but working and applying where the five senses do not. See p,133/5.

[Kiirnodel]

Personally, I could see either being appropriate. And in this specific circumstance, I would probably rule that you could use either skill in the same way that you can use Electronic Warfare in place of Perception when using Sensors.

So for a general "Astral Perception" test, I would allow either Assensing or Perception. But for reading auras specifically, you would only be able to use Assensing.

[Beta]

I use

logic + sneaking [astral] vs  intuition + asensing [astral]

as the test to hide from astral observation.  As mentioned above, the modifiers will often be different in the astral than the meat world, especially as astral observers are more likely to be using three dimensional placement (i.e. getting some height and looking down, eliminating much cover).  Logic because it is the 'astral agility' stat.

So if you're 'sneaking' whilst in the astral, does the searcher oppose with assessing or perception?

My view is that you still use Perception because Assessing is solely for reading (already spotted) auras.  But my view is apparently in the minority and many forumites see Assensing as duplicating Perception for the Astral plane.

I don't remember all of the specializations for Asensing suggested in the CRB, but I know that one of them is aura reading.  Given that aura reading is a specialization of asensing, and that other specializations are possible, I think the argument to extend asensing beyond aura reading is pretty strong.

[adzling]

Perception is for using your mundane senses. You use assensing for perceiving anything and everything on the astral.

from core book page 313:

"Like physical perception, you don’t need to make a test to see things that are immediately obvious (and since astral forms are bright and vibrant, this means that most astral forms are easy to spot). You only need to roll the dice when your target is trying to hide or when you’re trying to observe in detail—then you make an Assensing Test to see what you can see."

So if you're 'sneaking' whilst in the astral, does the searcher oppose with assessing or perception?

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Perception is for using your mundane senses. You use assensing for perceiving anything and everything on the astral.

from core book page 313:

"Like physical perception, you don’t need to make a test to see things that are immediately obvious (and since astral forms are bright and vibrant, this means that most astral forms are easy to spot). You only need to roll the dice when your target is trying to hide or when you’re trying to observe in detail—then you make an Assensing Test to see what you can see."

You see we point at the same text to support opposite conclusions.

"You roll the dice (standard perception test) when your target is trying to hide... then (after that perception test is successful) you make an Assensing Test".

There's less room for ambiguity in the description of the Skill itself on pg 142.  "This skill allows practitioners to learn information by reading astral auras."  Pretty much plainly says the use for Assensing is for interpreting what you can already see.

As pointed out upthread previously, Perception is treated special in the rules for the purposes of substituting (not technically defaulting) other skills in for the Perception test.  It's not strictly RAW that Assensing can be done like Sneaking Palming etc, but I'd support the position that it's the RAI that one may do so.  But even then, it's one Assensing (in place of Perception) to SPOT a hiding target, then a separate Assensing test to read the aura of that successfully spotted hiding person.

[adzling]

you are incorrect.

This is a rare instance in the rules where it's spelled out in an ironclad manner with text that is highly specific.

It's clearly spelled out in the sentence you are mis-interpreting where it notes "..then you make an Assensing Test to see what you can see."

The earlier part of the sentence "..roll the dice.." is clearly referring to the Assensing skill noted in the second half of the sentence.

It's assensing to spot/ perceive stuff on the astral, period.

Further backing this up is Perception skill only mentions physical senses (sight, hearing etc) and never mentions astral or matrix perception (both of which are covered via Assensing or Matrix Perception using different skills).

Everything else is homebrew/ unsupported by RAW or RAI.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Your claim of Perception being limited to the physical world/senses clashes with the existence of the Numinous specialization for Perception.

And I agree we disagree about the sentence in question.  By my understanding of logic, both Boolean and Common sense, a rule that says "Do X, THEN do Y" is not saying "Do X BY doing Y."  Using "then" means "start of a new task".

[忍]

Your claim of Perception being limited to the physical world/senses clashes with the existence of the Numinous specialization for Perception.

Core lists the five senses...

[PingGuy]

It's funny that logic is mentioned, think of the simple IF/THEN statement in any programming language.

"Like physical perception, you don’t need to make a test to see things that are immediately obvious (and since astral forms are bright and vibrant, this means that most astral forms are easy to spot). You only need to roll the dice when your target is trying to hide or when you’re trying to observe in detail—then you make an Assensing Test to see what you can see"

But before I get to that, see the underlined part.  "Like" meaning similar, but not the same as.  So they are saying this isn't Perception, but it works similarly.  Then you get to the bolded parts.  Substitute "If" for "When" and the "Then" makes sense as the course of action to take.

It just wouldn't make sense for that to mean that you can make an Assensing test after a Perception test in this case.  They say the Assensing test is "to see what you can see" which is what the Perception test would be for.  So at the very least, if it was meant as two separate tests, the wording of it would make them redundant tests.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

I guess we can also agree then that the cited sentence could have been worded in more clear language if the intent was indeed that Assensing simultaneously does what Assensing does (interpret data) AND what Perception does (gather data) rather than sequentially doing so across two tests. If it wasn't supposed to be sequential, they shouldn't have said "roll then do an assensing test", as the assensing test would then be a second roll.