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Land of Promise - Rampant Speculation Please!

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AceFace

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« Reply #60 on: <08-25-12/0253:06> »
I hadn't realised how much of a game I love is made by people doing it mostly for the love and generally not/barely turning a profit. Thank you very much for your honesty chaps - you've really got me thinking. Will definitely make more effort to review the stuff I buy in future and will definitely be looking into purchasing some more of the pdf only products. You guys rule!

Mirikon

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« Reply #61 on: <08-25-12/0827:40> »
I hadn't realised how much of a game I love is made by people doing it mostly for the love and generally not/barely turning a profit. Thank you very much for your honesty chaps - you've really got me thinking. Will definitely make more effort to review the stuff I buy in future and will definitely be looking into purchasing some more of the pdf only products. You guys rule!
Agreed. Also why I actually purchase a copy of the book/pdf, instead of checking one of the numerous sites that will let me steal borrow acquire them through this thing called bittorrent. Unlike my music collection, where I've 'acquired' 50-60 DAYS of music for my iPod.
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shrike

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« Reply #62 on: <08-28-12/1016:25> »
So excited about this book. Cant wait to see what Critias has in store for me to "ooh" and "ah" about.
Imar heron. Imar raen. Imar semeraerth. Imar milessaratish. Miriat tela li? Thiesat tekio tore li?

DarkLloyd

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« Reply #63 on: <09-06-12/0941:27> »
Soooo, stop the speculation please, Drivethru rpg has it up for sale..

Lets here the skinny on it people!!
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shrike

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« Reply #64 on: <09-06-12/1102:07> »
The pdf is 24 pages long. Opening fiction is excellent, as always. It reads like a travel brochure with comments dispersed throughout about various subjects: political climate, Peace Force, and what have you. Plot hooks, stats, gangs, and a new magical group. Love it. All of it.
Imar heron. Imar raen. Imar semeraerth. Imar milessaratish. Miriat tela li? Thiesat tekio tore li?

AceFace

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« Reply #65 on: <09-06-12/1108:37> »
How "noob-friendly" is it? Am I going to struggle if I don't have the original Tir Tairngire book?

Wakshaani

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« Reply #66 on: <09-06-12/1122:14> »
I'll leave a real review for a real reviewer, BUT, a few things that I look for include:

Update Demographics. There's over 5  millions people in the Tir, wit 78% of 'em being Elves. Eyeballing the older data, the Tir's lost around half a million people, mostly to exodus but fatalities racked up during the Troubles as well. The older rate was also 85% Elf. (For the math inclined, the old Elf population was 4,768,500 in all, while the new is 3,900,780, so 20 years down the line, some 867,000-ish Elves are no longer around.) Orks are the top minority, having passed up Dwarves, while humans are in fourth. Trolls have moved rom 'Negliable' to 1%, while 'Other' has dropped from 2% to 1%, but probably still outnumber Trolls.

Demographic info is skipped over by most people, but this is the kind of thing I chew the Hell out of. A country that sees a ppulation decline over 20 years must have gone through a rough patch, and since Elves haven't been around long enough for any to die of old age, so this would imply both a massive exodus (About a sixth of the country left, semi-replaced by new people) and a slow birthrate. The per capita income of the place has gone done (Mind you, it's still over 40,000Y a year, which would make the typical Seattleite drool, but) ... so, the economic issues are still a factor, but a loss that significant comes from the top, not the bottom ... lots of those missing Elves were *loaded* and took money out of the country with them. Not all of it, clearly, but big chunks. There're adventure hooks in there, following the money of the old Princes, trying to track down missing people, and so on.

Education wise, 98% of the population has at least a high school education, but fully a third of the nation has a college degree as well. Teh Tir is a land that insists that, to get ahead, you have to go to college, which implies a high level of literacy. Even Orks get out of there with at least a HS diploma, but there might be a "Gentleman's C" agreement going on or an alternative schooling path. I wouldn't at all put it past the Tr to insist on a 'separate but equal' school system, where long-lived Elves are given different lessons that short-lived Orks... this isn't mentioned (In either era!), so YMMV, but, it's notable.

Also notable is that, as Orks have become teh second-largest race, and the High Prince is an Ork as well, that they're bound to be more noticable and agitating. The assumed watchword for this is that "The Tir was formed as a land for all Metahumans, not an Elven Homeland. Treat us with respect." Just seeing this, I confess to being terribly tempted to play an Ork from the Tir, socially-active and fluent in Sperethiel (Can't speak it worth a dang, due to tusks, but able to understand it quite well, thanks) that could spin some heads. That the Ork population has roughly doubled in 20 years, despite the Troubles and certainly a large number of deaths in the riots and such, implies that Orks are on a rapid upswing. If you use bad projection, in 2139, Orks become the majority race in the Tir. 70 years is soon enough that the first generation of Elves will be able to see it happen, while the tenth generation of Orks will be coming of age.

...

Did I mention I suck at reviews?

Oh, and further indicator about life in the Tir, the poverty level slipped from claiming 15% of the population to 20% ... not only did the High Princes leave and take vast riches with them, but those left behind still haven't recovered. Some of the newly poverty-stricken are bound to be Counts and similar ranking Elven nobility, now living a whole new life after their patron fled the nation. There's some bitterness there. We also get an estimated SINless number, something that didn't exist in the old Tir. More and more interesting, eh? You now have a population that features a surging demographic and a fifth of the nation is poverty stricken, while a healthy chunk is SINless ... which means that you have a health number of local Shadowrunners. Outside Talent is also possible, as the weakened economy and loss of teh Immortals rocked the military/police pretty hard. It's now MUCH easier to get into teh Tir, and hiding inside once you get in is very much possible now, and not just for Elves. Just like that, you have a nation ready for use as an adventure setting, rather than the impregnible fortress of old that was cool to READ about, but horrible to actually ADVENTURE in. It's still tough to get in, but nothing like it used to be, which means 'runners have a reasonable expectation of success, so, major kudos to that. A setting that players can't go to and enjoy isn't good for anybody.

Education and changing demographics get an in-document nod, while "Getting in to the Tir" gets a nicely-sized write-up with far more detail, reminding me that the parts of a book that curl my toes are quite different from normal people. Some basic landscape stuff, a note about Tir currency and the hard copies that they make (Paper! Coins! Whee! I'm a huge fan of cash-in-hand, and love to see this pop up. More countries should be doing this in teh wake of Crash 2.0 wiping out digital fortunes. Not as efficient or easy to use, but holding money in your hand adds a tangible element that people cling to in times of worry. There had to be an absolute CLAMOUR for this in teh wake of the Crash, and politicians had to buckled under public pressure or get booted. The banks aren't happy, and obviously not every location will accept the stuff, but it's a godsend for any poor or economically depressed area. You can certainly imagine Redmond and Pullyup demanding that the Seattle get its hand on cash money. Something for the future, hmm?

You know, I'm doing way more speculating and extrapolating than reviewing, and I'm, what, 4 pages in? I think I'll just hush up now and let somebody who knows what they're doing take over. I'm doing this all wrong. FUN, but wrong. :)


Critias

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« Reply #67 on: <09-06-12/1129:49> »
I worked on those demographics for...a while.  Sat with the old Tir Tairngire book and Shadows of North America in front of me, for a long time, looking at the numbers, fast forwarding, basing it all on what little's been written about the Tir since those days (mostly about how Puyallup's full of refugees, and how that implies other places are full of refugees, too) thinking about some classes I've taken (and taught), talking with a faculty friend that teaches Poli-Sci instead of History so he could double-check some stuff for me (who tolerated me asking for help because he's a huge Tolkien fan).  And the whole time I was thinking "I'm a dummy.  No one will notice this.  No one will care.  This is a waste of time.  Go write something, ya dork!"

Wak, brother, I love ya. 

CanRay

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« Reply #68 on: <09-06-12/1144:20> »
How "noob-friendly" is it? Am I going to struggle if I don't have the original Tir Tairngire book?
It's so user friendly that it has a tourist version of the Microsoft Paperclip as part of the book!

...

Yes, I wish to burn the damned thing now as well.  ;D
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Crimsondude

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« Reply #69 on: <09-06-12/1208:05> »
Opening fiction is excellent, as always.
I know something you all don't know ... :D

Nath

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« Reply #70 on: <09-06-12/1347:03> »
Update Demographics. There's over 5  millions people in the Tir, wit 78% of 'em being Elves. Eyeballing the older data, the Tir's lost around half a million people, mostly to exodus but fatalities racked up during the Troubles as well. The older rate was also 85% Elf. (For the math inclined, the old Elf population was 4,768,500 in all, while the new is 3,900,780, so 20 years down the line, some 867,000-ish Elves are no longer around.) Orks are the top minority, having passed up Dwarves, while humans are in fourth. Trolls have moved rom 'Negliable' to 1%, while 'Other' has dropped from 2% to 1%, but probably still outnumber Trolls.
Shadows of North America already introduced much larger changes, as part of a major overhaul of most demographic datas in North America (I liked the idea someone proposed a while ago that the NAN lied on their population figures because of some Council votes weighing them in, but that wouldn't include Tir Tairngire).

By settling halfway between Tir Tairngire and Shadows of North America, The Land of Promise is somewhat retconing the retcon. I wouldn't try to make sense of figures that say GDP fell from 308 billions nuyen to 125 in a decade, then back to 210 (that would be Norway becoming Slovakia, then Finland, if you want a comparison).
Though you could make all three Per Capita Income figures somewhat make change by stating SoNA inverted two numbers, 25,000 instead of 52,000.

Tir Tairngire (2054)
Population: 5,610,000
Metatypes: Human 1%, Elf 85%, Dwarf 7%, Ork 5%, Troll Negligible, Other 2%
Per Capita Income: 55,000¥
Population Below Poverty Level: 15%
Education: High School Equivalency 53%, College Equivalency 30%, Advanced Studies Certificate 13%

Shadowrun of North America (2063)
Population: 5,010,000
Metatypes: Human 4%, Elf 81%, Dwarf 7%, Ork 5%, Troll 1%, Other 2%
Per Capita Income: 25,000¥
Below Poverty Level: 26%
Education: Less Than Twelve Years 6%, High School Equivalency 55%, College Degree 29%, Advanced Degrees 10%

Land of Promise (2074)
Population: 5,001,000
Metatypes: Human 3%, Elf 78%, Dwarf 8%, Ork 9%, Troll 1%, Other 1%
Per Capita Income: 42,000¥
Population Below Poverty Level: 20%
Estimated SINless: 7%
Education: Less Than Twelve Years 2%, High School Equivalency 52%, College Degrees 35%, Advanced Degrees 11%

Crimsondude

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« Reply #71 on: <09-06-12/1507:27> »
Shadows of North America ...

Mirikon

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« Reply #72 on: <09-06-12/1509:09> »
Quote from: Land of Promise, pg 19
> I think I know one reason for Willamette’s edge. Rumor is a certain whitehaired
friend has shown his head somewhere, both digitally and in realspace.
He’s working with Compustat, not Telestrian, for help in his never-ending
search. Jesus, Buddha, and Zeus only know what tricks he’s showing them in
exchange, who else he’s been consulting for these last few years, or what he’s
capable of now.
> FastJack

> White-haired and searching? Puck’s no friend of mine, Jack.
> Bull

> No, this one’s an elf. He’s also quite a bit older and infinitely more artful than
Puck …
> FastJack
Am I the only one who thinks this is a reference to Leonardo?
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Critias

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« Reply #73 on: <09-06-12/1511:05> »
Quote from: Land of Promise, pg 19
> I think I know one reason for Willamette’s edge. Rumor is a certain whitehaired
friend has shown his head somewhere, both digitally and in realspace.
He’s working with Compustat, not Telestrian, for help in his never-ending
search. Jesus, Buddha, and Zeus only know what tricks he’s showing them in
exchange, who else he’s been consulting for these last few years, or what he’s
capable of now.
> FastJack

> White-haired and searching? Puck’s no friend of mine, Jack.
> Bull

> No, this one’s an elf. He’s also quite a bit older and infinitely more artful than
Puck …
> FastJack
Am I the only one who thinks this is a reference to Leonardo?
I sure hope you are.  I thought I was bein' more clear than that.   :-\

Here's a hint -- he's so "artful" that he was on the very first Shadowrun covers ever printed, and was also on the cover of one of our most recent publications.  But he dodged all the rest of them in between the two. ;)
« Last Edit: <09-06-12/1513:20> by Critias »

Mirikon

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« Reply #74 on: <09-06-12/1522:55> »
Heh. You say old, white-haired elf and mention art, my mind leaps to Leonardo. Nice to see Dodger is still around, though.
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