NEWS

Drones helping by using teamwork tests?

  • 44 Replies
  • 11117 Views

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

  • *
  • Errata Coordinator
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 4572
« Reply #15 on: <06-05-18/2038:02> »
Why would drones assisting people be rules-mechanically be any different than drones assisting other drones?  Or for that matter why would it be any different for drones to assist people than people assisting people?

Attribute+Skill.  That's what you roll.  In the case of drones, the Pilot rating is the attribute and Autosoft is the skill rating.  What's complicating things?
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Cabral

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 85
« Reply #16 on: <06-05-18/2305:47> »
I haven't been able to find a rule against it...
You need to find a rule that allows it. Not the other way around.
Not exactly, teamwork tests are defined as attribute + skill.
Drones use Pilot for attribute and autosofts for skill, explicitly.
I could not find what they use all of the physical attributes.
It is also not clear if teamwork tests require the actual skill and attributes or if the drone's substitutes suffice.

As it stands, I lean towards allowing it, but it is very much up to GM interpretation.

PiXeL01

  • *
  • Errata Team
  • Ace Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 2264
  • Sheltering Orks in Osaka
« Reply #17 on: <06-05-18/2331:32> »
Drones use pilot for all actions, mental or physical. Limit’s all that changes.
Gunnery is pilot + targeting soft
Stealth is Pilot + stealth soft
If Tom Brady’s a Spike Baby, what does that make Brees and Rodgers?

Marcus

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2802
  • Success always demands a greater effort.
« Reply #18 on: <06-06-18/0133:34> »
Why would drones assisting people be rules-mechanically be any different than drones assisting other drones?  Or for that matter why would it be any different for drones to assist people than people assisting people?

A Drone that is under the control of the same RCC is a very different thing then a drone hanging out next to some Sam.
It's a question of complexity and sophistication in strategy. RCC controlled drones are in effect a piece of the same system. While a drone and some random street sam are totally different things. The drone has no basis for predicting or interpreting the action of the Sam, beyond a very basic level. Where drone from the same RCC can be said to aware of each and the over all strategy and in effect speak the same language. If you want to cooperating with something to the point where a team work test is possible both drone and sam need to both on the same page, and able to effectively communicate, at-least within the frame work of the shared action. Yeah it's wordy answer but it's fairly involved. Thus imo you need ether it's own skillsoft or some of the piece of hardware to do that coordination. (A tac-net, some other kind coordination gadget, the SmartGun II system used to talk about doing something kinda like this, but that langauge fell off that tech editions ago. Regardless of that fact that the current smartgun should many times smarter then a system that predates it by atleast a decade. 


Attribute+Skill.  That's what you roll.  In the case of drones, the Pilot rating is the attribute and Autosoft is the skill rating.  What's complicating things?

You illustrated my skillsoft point pretty perfectly here.

*Play-by-Post color guide*
Thinking
com
speaking

Cabral

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 85
« Reply #19 on: <06-06-18/1357:34> »
Drones use pilot for all actions, mental or physical. Limit’s all that changes.
Gunnery is pilot + targeting soft
Stealth is Pilot + stealth soft
Officially, depending on where you look, pilot substitutes for mental attributes or mental attributes and reaction. However, every other reference to an attribute + skill test I have seen where drones are explicitly called out, the test is pilot + autosoft.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

  • *
  • Errata Coordinator
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 4572
« Reply #20 on: <06-07-18/1047:59> »
Why would drones assisting people be rules-mechanically be any different than drones assisting other drones?  Or for that matter why would it be any different for drones to assist people than people assisting people?

A Drone that is under the control of the same RCC is a very different thing then a drone hanging out next to some Sam.
It's a question of complexity and sophistication in strategy. RCC controlled drones are in effect a piece of the same system. While a drone and some random street sam are totally different things. The drone has no basis for predicting or interpreting the action of the Sam, beyond a very basic level. Where drone from the same RCC can be said to aware of each and the over all strategy and in effect speak the same language. If you want to cooperating with something to the point where a team work test is possible both drone and sam need to both on the same page, and able to effectively communicate, at-least within the frame work of the shared action. Yeah it's wordy answer but it's fairly involved. Thus imo you need ether it's own skillsoft or some of the piece of hardware to do that coordination. (A tac-net, some other kind coordination gadget, the SmartGun II system used to talk about doing something kinda like this, but that langauge fell off that tech editions ago. Regardless of that fact that the current smartgun should many times smarter then a system that predates it by atleast a decade. 

While there's room to perhaps make that synthesis expounded out from the limited fluff we have in SR5 and R5 regarding the nature of drone "dog brains" and the even more limited info we have about the implications of being RCC linked, it's depending on some unsupported assumptions.

Why is a Drone unable to reasonably anticipate the actions of a Sammie (presumably one he's assisting)?  To rebut this assertion: The drone "dog brains" are absolutely able to (potentially) anticipate/interpret intent of a meatbody when presented with a situation that its explicit instructions didn't cover or are conflicting (SR5 pg 269)

You also seem to be implying that two drones can't assist each other if they're not linked through the same RCC.  To rebut:  There's no basis I'm aware of given anywhere for industrial drones needing to be hive-mind-linked in order to assist each other on construction/industrial projects.  In fact consider the example of the MCT Kechiku-Kikai industrial drones being explicitly un-linked to one another and only able to get updates to their assigned tasks by reporting in to hard dock with a computer at their charging stations.  Surely a dozen of these drones are rules-mechanically able to assist one another on industrial scale extended tasks despite the lack of a RCC-like "hive mind".

Communication barrier prevents working with metahumans effectively.  Not gonna agree with you on this premise either.  Using the lore/rules from R5, Drones know up to two metahuman languages (the predominant language in the market in which it was sold, and the language of its manufacturing megacorp).  We also know that you can "control" a drone simply by giving it vocal orders even without going through a Commlink or RCC.  It ain't shadowrun but that scene in Dredd is exactly how it's described to work.  (Judge Dredd dismounting to chase perps: "Bike! Initiate Crowd Control."  Bike: "Acknowledged.  Citizens: Interfering with a crime scene carries a mandatory sentence in the Iso-Cubes...")

Quote from: Marcus
Attribute+Skill.  That's what you roll.  In the case of drones, the Pilot rating is the attribute and Autosoft is the skill rating.  What's complicating things?

You illustrated my skillsoft point pretty perfectly here.

We were both sloppy with terminology here.  If a Drone is to assist with say an Automotive Mechanic extended skill test, it's using neither an Autosoft nor a Skillsoft.  And since it's a drone rather than a true A.I. it doesn't natively have the Automotive Mechanic skill either. The proper term/piece of software is Skillset (R5, pg 127).  There are only a finite number of skills that can have Skillsets, but Automotive Mechanics is on that list.  So to correct my quoted statement:

"Attribute+Skill.  That's what you roll.  In the case of drones, the Pilot rating is the attribute and Skillset is the skill rating."


So my larger point of the rebuttal here:  There's nothing I've found saying Drones are excluded by the Teamwork Test rules (SR5 pg 49).  They shouldn't need to be explicitly included as elves aren't, dwarves aren't, spirits aren't, and so on.

Interesting point:  I looked up the Agent rules, as they're pretty analogous to drone Pilots, as to whether it says anywhere whether they explicitly can or cannot engage in teamwork tests with their Deckers.  It doesn't, and in fact punts to the Pilot rules as saying "they're similar".  So clearly they either both can or both can't.
« Last Edit: <06-07-18/1052:26> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Marcus

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2802
  • Success always demands a greater effort.
« Reply #21 on: <06-07-18/1817:29> »
What the game tells about the drone dog brain are programmed to handle fuzzy logic. Correctly interpreting some random street sam's action leading into a tactical roll requires more then just fuzzy logic. The first real instances of Drone Net testing, small boat swarms being conducted by the navy shows use pretty clearly you need to have networked groups if you want to achieve tactical objectives. That technology is what will become RCC, if such a thing ever does actually come into existence. 

You can build simple drone groups that respond to basic sets of commands and so long as what you aren't doing something more complicated then follow the leader it can work. So the Short answer is we know because the have told use the limitations of the technology, and nothing any fluff or rule has said they are strong examples of machine learning. Which means until you program technology with a capability then it doesn't posses that capability.

You should, know drone technologies aren't new we had radio controlled drones that could out fly, pilot, event combat Pilots for decades, the reason they could in tests reliably out fly them is that didn't have human limitations. Drones aren't sensitive to G-forces, and lack most of the limitations of human body. We just haven't had perceptron based neural networks that were sophisticated enough to allow drones outside direct human control until quite recently.

If you wanna put a sprite into a drone and have it make teams works tests I'm pretty ok with the idea. But if you want to have drone dog brains do it, I'm not sold.
*Play-by-Post color guide*
Thinking
com
speaking

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

  • *
  • Errata Coordinator
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 4572
« Reply #22 on: <06-07-18/1841:23> »
.. But if you want to have drone dog brains do it, I'm not sold.

Way I see it the fluff already tells us that drones already assist surgeons on medical tests, drones already assist each other to clear out debris from a construction site, and etc.  If that's not participating in a Teamwork test then nothing is.  If you want to say drones can't participate in teamwork tests just because you don't think they should, that's fine.  There's no rules basis in saying that is what I'm arguing.

The Teamwork rules could be read to apply only to Shadowrunners if you want to be strictly RAW, but I don't think anyone is prepared to agree that NPC metahumans can't use Teamwork rules so let's set that aside.  Barring that strict RAW, there's no limitation on who or what may participate in a Teamwork test.  Ergo since a Drone isn't barred, it's allowed.  So is a Dog for that matter.  Or are you arguing that a biological dog is unable to assist its handler with a Tracking test?  And if not, why is a biological dog brain allowed to do a teamwork test but not a digitial (and potentially much more intelligent) dog brain?
« Last Edit: <06-07-18/1917:17> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Marcus

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2802
  • Success always demands a greater effort.
« Reply #23 on: <06-08-18/0008:36> »

Way I see it the fluff already tells us that drones already assist surgeons on medical tests, drones already assist each other to clear out debris from a construction site, and etc.  If that's not participating in a Teamwork test then nothing is.  If you want to say drones can't participate in teamwork tests just because you don't think they should, that's fine.  There's no rules basis in saying that is what I'm arguing.

The Teamwork rules could be read to apply only to Shadowrunners if you want to be strictly RAW, but I don't think anyone is prepared to agree that NPC metahumans can't use Teamwork rules so let's set that aside.  Barring that strict RAW, there's no limitation on who or what may participate in a Teamwork test.  Ergo since a Drone isn't barred, it's allowed.  So is a Dog for that matter.  Or are you arguing that a biological dog is unable to assist its handler with a Tracking test?  And if not, why is a biological dog brain allowed to do a teamwork test but not a digitial (and potentially much more intelligent) dog brain?


LOL ok SSDR, why don't you get on that, you try that and let me know how it works out. You and RAW really just don't seem to connect well man. I don't need the teamwork rules to disallow cockroach's from helping me research advanced mathematics, something are just obvious. If you want to put super smart drones on your table that will help all player with teamworks tests more power too ya. But I think you will find, that you are once again in the vast minority of thinking that should work right out box.

I think a teamwork Autosoft/program is a legit concept, and something that could easily be useful as an add on to lots of tech. I just don't think it can do without it.

« Last Edit: <06-08-18/0011:23> by Marcus »
*Play-by-Post color guide*
Thinking
com
speaking

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

  • *
  • Errata Coordinator
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 4572
« Reply #24 on: <06-08-18/0054:02> »

Way I see it the fluff already tells us that drones already assist surgeons on medical tests, drones already assist each other to clear out debris from a construction site, and etc.  If that's not participating in a Teamwork test then nothing is.  If you want to say drones can't participate in teamwork tests just because you don't think they should, that's fine.  There's no rules basis in saying that is what I'm arguing.

The Teamwork rules could be read to apply only to Shadowrunners if you want to be strictly RAW, but I don't think anyone is prepared to agree that NPC metahumans can't use Teamwork rules so let's set that aside.  Barring that strict RAW, there's no limitation on who or what may participate in a Teamwork test.  Ergo since a Drone isn't barred, it's allowed.  So is a Dog for that matter.  Or are you arguing that a biological dog is unable to assist its handler with a Tracking test?  And if not, why is a biological dog brain allowed to do a teamwork test but not a digitial (and potentially much more intelligent) dog brain?


LOL ok SSDR, why don't you get on that, you try that and let me know how it works out. You and RAW really just don't seem to connect well man. I don't need the teamwork rules to disallow cockroach's from helping me research advanced mathematics, something are just obvious. If you want to put super smart drones on your table that will help all player with teamworks tests more power too ya. But I think you will find, that you are once again in the vast minority of thinking that should work right out box.

At least try to be intellectually honest Marcus.  If one were to argue that a cockroach could assist someone on an advanced mathematics teamwork test, one would have to somehow argue that a cockroach knows advanced mathematics.  If the cockroach somehow had both the skill in question AND a non-zero associated mental attribute, then actually yeah the magically smart cockroach could assist. 

But let's keep it to actually plausible scenarios shall we?

Dogs assisting their handlers tracking a fugitive?  Obviously that's possible, just as it's equally obvious the dog simultaneously can not assist his handler on advanced mathmatics.
Medical drones assisting the surgeon performing a medical procedure?  Obviously that's possible.  That's literally why they exist.

Arguing these sorts of things are in fact NOT possible despite the prima facie nature of them being possible puts the onus on you to provide supporting citations.  Not on someone else to disprove your claim.   You tell us why a dog may assist a metahuman but a drone can't.  You tell us why computerized skill knowledge is teamwork compatible when it's a skillsoft on a metahuman's skillwires but not when it's a skillset on a drone.

Now there's nothing wrong with a house rule saying your own invented software is necessary in the same way that a Smartsoft is required for a drone to benefit from a smartlink... but there IS something wrong with saying that's what the rulebook is saying.
« Last Edit: <06-08-18/0125:11> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

  • *
  • Errata Coordinator
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 4572
« Reply #25 on: <06-08-18/0059:49> »
Oh yeah.  A quotation for just in case you're going to try to argue that *I'm* the one making a crazy claim and therefore have the burden of proof:

Quote from: Rigger 5, EVO Proletarian drone, pg 131-132
They're advanced enough to be trusted with simple work, banging out dents, changing tires, checking the oil, and so on, but they are also handy assistants for harder work, presenting you with tools when you need them, keeping vehicle schematics displayed on their chest screen, and keeping an eye on things when you're beneath an undercarriage.

You're gonna tell us all that doesn't sound like the Proletarian drone is expressly designed for assisting with automotive mechanics?
« Last Edit: <06-08-18/0115:27> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Marcus

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2802
  • Success always demands a greater effort.
« Reply #26 on: <06-08-18/0250:41> »

At least try to be intellectually honest Marcus.  If one were to argue that a cockroach could assist someone on an advanced mathematics teamwork test, one would have to somehow argue that a cockroach knows advanced mathematics.  If the cockroach somehow had both the skill in question AND a non-zero associated mental attribute, then actually yeah the magically smart cockroach could assist. 

But let's keep it to actually plausible scenarios shall we?

Dogs assisting their handlers tracking a fugitive?  Obviously that's possible, just as it's equally obvious the dog simultaneously can not assist his handler on advanced mathmatics.
Medical drones assisting the surgeon performing a medical procedure?  Obviously that's possible.  That's literally why they exist.

Arguing these sorts of things are in fact NOT possible despite the prima facie nature of them being possible puts the onus on you to provide supporting citations.  Not on someone else to disprove your claim.   You tell us why a dog may assist a metahuman but a drone can't.  You tell us why computerized skill knowledge is teamwork compatible when it's a skillsoft on a metahuman's skillwires but not when it's a skillset on a drone.

Now there's nothing wrong with a house rule saying your own invented software is necessary in the same way that a Smartsoft is required for a drone to benefit from a smartlink... but there IS something wrong with saying that's what the rulebook is saying.

As to honesty your blank statement was just silly and I'm a big fan of poking holes such silly absolutism.

Sure a doctor directly controlling a drone as a 2nd pair of hands works fine, we have purposed examples of that technology right now. As was discussed in another thread we can mount a Valkyrie pod on a bike.  Nothing in that language that convincing me it's making a team work test. Nothing in the language of Valkyrie pods says it makes team work test does it? It's been a long time sense I read those rules, but I don't recall anything about that.

Dogs are great, they do lots of stuff, and we have literal had a good chunk of human history to breed and teach them do a lot things that are within their natural capacity and even expand that capacity. So I do think we can train dogs to the point when they can make team work tests, seeing eye dogs etc. But unlike drones, dogs have amazing capacities to read humans. Do drones naturally have the ability to sense oncoming seizures in humans? And as I said there are ways to give drones the ability team work tests. (Sprites, Jumping in one).

I just don't think they can do it out of the box without some sort of software. Do you really think that dishonest? I think just it's working with the system.
 
I think I have been very clear in what I said, and I believe it's consistent with RAW, further I think my record on RAW has been better then yours. But we have just arguing in circles for the last couple post, so if you come up with some useful new point let me know. Otherwise I'm done with this.
« Last Edit: <06-08-18/0253:22> by Marcus »
*Play-by-Post color guide*
Thinking
com
speaking

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

  • *
  • Errata Coordinator
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 4572
« Reply #27 on: <06-08-18/1209:10> »

At least try to be intellectually honest Marcus.  If one were to argue that a cockroach could assist someone on an advanced mathematics teamwork test, one would have to somehow argue that a cockroach knows advanced mathematics.  If the cockroach somehow had both the skill in question AND a non-zero associated mental attribute, then actually yeah the magically smart cockroach could assist. 

But let's keep it to actually plausible scenarios shall we?

Dogs assisting their handlers tracking a fugitive?  Obviously that's possible, just as it's equally obvious the dog simultaneously can not assist his handler on advanced mathmatics.
Medical drones assisting the surgeon performing a medical procedure?  Obviously that's possible.  That's literally why they exist.

Arguing these sorts of things are in fact NOT possible despite the prima facie nature of them being possible puts the onus on you to provide supporting citations.  Not on someone else to disprove your claim.   You tell us why a dog may assist a metahuman but a drone can't.  You tell us why computerized skill knowledge is teamwork compatible when it's a skillsoft on a metahuman's skillwires but not when it's a skillset on a drone.

Now there's nothing wrong with a house rule saying your own invented software is necessary in the same way that a Smartsoft is required for a drone to benefit from a smartlink... but there IS something wrong with saying that's what the rulebook is saying.

As to honesty your blank statement was just silly and I'm a big fan of poking holes such silly absolutism.

Well then hopefully you're acknowledging at this point then that you're the only one who brought up the silly idea of something without a skill participating in a teamwork test for that skill.

Quote
Sure a doctor directly controlling a drone as a 2nd pair of hands works fine, we have purposed examples of that technology right now. As was discussed in another thread we can mount a Valkyrie pod on a bike.  Nothing in that language that convincing me it's making a team work test. Nothing in the language of Valkyrie pods says it makes team work test does it? It's been a long time sense I read those rules, but I don't recall anything about that.

Dogs are great, they do lots of stuff, and we have literal had a good chunk of human history to breed and teach them do a lot things that are within their natural capacity and even expand that capacity. So I do think we can train dogs to the point when they can make team work tests, seeing eye dogs etc. But unlike drones, dogs have amazing capacities to read humans. Do drones naturally have the ability to sense oncoming seizures in humans? And as I said there are ways to give drones the ability team work tests. (Sprites, Jumping in one).

Valkryie module rules basically establish them a Rating 6 First Aid Kit with some added specific functionalities, but being in effect a fancy first aid kit gives a reasonable way to figure out how it works if not just set down to do its own thing autonomously without needing to look at teamwork tests (i.e. use the first aid kit rules)

Dogs indeed have 20 to 40 thousand years of selection to be exceptionally well adapted to observing and reacting to humans' cues.  This has nothing to do with the fictional technology of drone "dog brains".  It's fine to argue at your table that a drone does not have a dog's ability to interact with people, but again that's not something the rulebook supports.  What the rulebook says on the matter of a drone's ability to replicate a dog's ability to interact with people is in fact this:

Quote from: SR5 pg 269, Pilot Programs: 3rd paragraph
Pilots have a Rating indicated by the Device Rating
of the vehicle, drone, or other piece of gear they’re
in. This rating is used in place of any Mental attribute
needed for a test, but it hardly makes up for a metahuman
brain. When faced with something novel or unexpected,
or a complicated command, a Pilot program
must make a Device Rating x 2 Test against a threshold
set by the gamemaster based on how confusing
the situation is. If it fails this test, it blithely continues
doing what it was doing before, or simply stops entirely
and asks for instructions.

A drone is explicitly/expressly/CLEARLY able act not just like a dog with regards to anticipating what its human wants it to do, a high rating pilot program is going to be much better at it than a mundane dog. 

Quote
I just don't think they can do it out of the box without some sort of software. Do you really think that dishonest? I think just it's working with the system.

No, to be clear I don't think it's incorrect to say a drone "should" have yet another demand on its limited program slots to use a program of your invention in order to participate in a teamwork test.  Rule Zero allows for this afterall.   What I think is dishonest to say that the rulebook says this is required.

Look again at the example of the EVO Proletarian.  It's basically that cute robot arm from the Iron Man franchise that Tony Stark built to help him build super suits.  But to discuss the SR realm specifically: it's designed (both in-universe and from a meta sense) to assist with automotive mechanics.  The fluff says this outright (I quoted it upthread) and the rules crunch give it the Automotive Mechanics skillset.  The crunch does not however give it a hypothetical extra program that serves to make it understand people well enough to assist them.

I get that in your understanding of the lore/fluff a Drone is incapable of understanding metahumans well enough to assist them, and that a hypothetical piece of software is required to do so.  And I'm not trying to "correct" your opinion.  What I'm pointing out is you're inventing a piece of tech/gear never described in the core rulebook nor the Rigger expansion book and declaring it to be a mandatory piece of tech (for participating in assisting metahmans).  It simply isn't in either book... what do I have to do quote the entirety of both books to prove the negative?  The one disputing a claim doesn't disprove a negative, the one making a claim supports his claim.  Cite me which page says a piece of software (other than the Pilot Program) is required for a drone to participate in a teamwork test or else you're making up house rules.  Q.E.D.
 
Quote
I think I have been very clear in what I said, and I believe it's consistent with RAW, further I think my record on RAW has been better then yours. But we have just arguing in circles for the last couple post, so if you come up with some useful new point let me know. Otherwise I'm done with this.

Alright.  You do know what a Non-Sequitur is?  Even if I had been wrong 100 times before it doesn't mean I'm wrong now.  Furthermore saying "Nanny nanny poo poo Jayde Moon agreed with me and not you-ooo!" is kindergarten shit.  Not suitable for intelligent discussion.

If you want to self righteously do a mike drop, do it after explaining why the Proleterian doesn't have any "May take part in a Teamwork Test" software of some kind.  And for that matter, why the rulebook doesn't tell us the qualities OF that software (how much it costs, what its availability rating is, etc)
« Last Edit: <06-08-18/1225:57> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Marcus

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2802
  • Success always demands a greater effort.
« Reply #28 on: <06-09-18/0204:46> »
SSDR you really like putting words in my mouth for some reason, I certainly never did anything so childish.  Based upon our many interaction I think you and raw don't get along very well. I don't know why you just seem to read something and deiced the rules can't be seen any other way, regardless of the other effects, and I don't just mean Magic and Drones, we have done this dance at least 4 times. 

You seem to take this stuff very personally, and I'm not sure why. If a Mod comes in here and says drones running under dogbrain can make team test all day great, I'm just as happy with that out come as any other. My goal is to understand the rules and have the best game of SR possible. I'd be very happy to make good use of drone team works test if that's legal, and if comes in and says the other way then I'm all for making teamwork autosoft. Or if he says we are both crazy and drone can't teamwork test that's also fine.

It's just a game SSDR, no more, no less. A game I think we both really enjoy, so lets relax and enjoy it.
*Play-by-Post color guide*
Thinking
com
speaking

Streetsam_Crunch

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 70
  • Grumpy Old Ork
« Reply #29 on: <06-09-18/0407:18> »
Hey all, new to the neighborhood and been reading up on some of the topics here, so hope I'm not interrupting anything.

I'm kind of interested in hearing it from an official source, and agree it's an interesting question.

The only thing that the core covers anything like it is Medkits. If the "(talkative) doctor expert system" that if needed "can operate itself with a dice pool of Medkit RatingX2 with a limit equal to its rating" isn't a drone of some sort, I'm not sure what is.

Though when assisting a character, unlike another human assisting in a teamwork test, it doesn't add dice to the player making the roll, only the limit. It's strictly assisting.

So, can that logic be extended to other activities? Like a drone 'lighting up' a target as mentioned earlier? Without any official source saying otherwise, as a GM, I'd probably allow it, but like the Medkit it wouldn't add more dice rather than just raise the limit based on its roll (there's nothing intuitive or constructive the drone is adding, merely providing a service similar to a Medkit). Still, in this case, it wouldn't make a gun more accurate, only making it easier for the one shooting, so this would only really help if the gun's accuracy is higher than the character's limit in that scenario if my presumption is correct.

Of course, a Drone's ability to 'assist' in that way would be situational, and limited to what it is programmed to do, and the creativity of the Rigger or one telling the drone what they wanted from it.

If, for whatever reason, the drone is programmed to lockpick for example, the dogbrain would only try to pick the lock itself with whatever tools were built into it- it wouldn't be able to assist the character (unless the character needed a lockpick tool and tore it off the drone maybe?  ;D ). I kind of see drone programs as akin to Skillwires (in that it controls the 'muscle memory' of the user). The drone 'understands' how to pick the lock, but can not explain it, only attempt it.

Now, if it were programmed like I'm presuming a Medkit is, in that it is programmed specifically to assist in such actions, if you had a programmer give it a knowledgesoft on "how to Lockpick" that would probably work like a Medkit. Does that make any sense?

...Now that I'm thinking of it... I'm kind of curious if physical Skillwired characters can (or should be able to) assist in teamwork tests of that type if they're relying on Skillwires... but that might be a whole new can of worms...

Anyway, that's my 2 nuyen on it.

Crunch~