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[SR5] Astral perception through walls

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dposluns

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« on: <05-10-16/1028:48> »
We've been playing Astral Perception as a 6th sense unrelated to sight and therefore able to see spirits, barriers etc. through walls. I'm now pretty sure that's wrong, but the only definitive text I can find on it is from SR4. Does anyone have a reference in any of the SR5 manuals that makes it clear that anything visually opaque also impedes astral perception?

Thanks,

Dan.

adzling

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« Reply #1 on: <05-10-16/1036:27> »
not to hand but that is how it works since 1st ed.

You cannot see through anything you can't see through on the physical.

+ you can't see through some stuff you can see through on the physical.

Example: you can't see through glass or water on the astral.

Anything that forms a physical barrier on the material will stop you seeing through it on the astral.

dposluns

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« Reply #2 on: <05-10-16/1037:32> »
I get that in principle, I just want something quick and easy from SR5 I can give my GM.

Medicineman

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« Reply #3 on: <05-10-16/1038:39> »
>>  I'm now pretty sure that's wrong,

and rightly so ;)

>> but the only definitive text I can find on it is from SR4.

nothing has changed in the meantime.
You still can't see astrally through walls.
A mage could pass through with astral projection and than assense from inside the Building.

HougH!
Medicineman



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dposluns

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« Reply #4 on: <05-10-16/1040:05> »
Ok, I get that nothing has changed since SR4, but we are starting from SR5, and a resource from there would be helpful.  ;D

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #5 on: <05-10-16/1337:04> »
If you're looking for something concrete from SR5 you'll be sorely disappointed. There is, however, no explicit mention in SR5 that walls would be transparent either, so in the end if you only had SR5 as a reference I'd say it'd be up to the GM to interpret for his game.

SR4 lore is pretty well established, but using SR5 only I'd use this sentence:
Quote from: SR5 p312
Any non-living objects appear as faded semblances of their physical selves; grey, lifeless, and intangible.

Unfortunately, one definition of "intangible" is "incorporeal", but again I wouldn't necessarily equate that to "translucent".

There's also this:
Quote from: SR5 p313
Like physical perception, you don’t need to make a test to see things that are immediately obvious (and since astral forms are bright and vibrant, this means that most astral forms are easy to spot). You only need to roll the dice when your target is trying to hide or when you’re trying to observe in detail—then you make an Assensing Test to see what you can see.

Based on this alone, I would say that "things that are immediately obvious" as it would be for normal, physical perception, does not include something hidden behind a wall.

So yeah, as far as I can tell there is no concrete statement in SR5 that says walls are opaque and cannot be seen through. There's plenty of reference material, though.

Reaver

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« Reply #6 on: <05-10-16/1347:35> »
If you are looking for a bullet form entry on a page that says : "you can see through things on the astral" I am afraid you are out of luck :(

There is a lot of alluding to the fact that you can't see through objects (like the fact that you can hide on the astral. See Astral Perception)

But yes, everything that is on the physical is reflected on the astral, it may be intangible for the most part, but it still blocks vision (or what counts for vision on the astral)
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

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bangbangtequila

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« Reply #7 on: <05-10-16/1404:30> »
I envision astral perception sort of like changing everything physical into various shades of fog. You know when you're driving through fog, and your high beams create an impenetrable wall in front of you, but turning them down to daytime running lights allows you to see the furthest? I imagine astral space to be much the same, but light is the emotion evoked by the object in question. The fence of a prison yard would be opaque, because of the intense feelings of confinement, of being trapped, that the fence evokes in hundreds of people every day. The concrete walls of say, a long abandoned temporary camp, however, might be totally transparent because they've caused no emotion or feelings at all in a hundred years, and weren't that important even then.

Just my personal interpretation based on the descriptions in the 4e and 5e books. Hopefully it helps.

Senko

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« Reply #8 on: <05-11-16/0438:39> »
Best information I know of are the two pargraphs in astral perception that say . . .

It is a primary sense used in the astral plane that allows you to “see” auras and other things in the astral world overlaid on the material plane.

Like physical perception, you don’t need to make a test to see things that are immediately obvious (and since astral forms are bright and vibrant, this means that most astral forms are easy to spot). You only need to roll the dice when your target is trying to hide or when you’re trying to observe in detail—then you make an Assensing Test to see what you can see.

Now I do tend to read too much into things but to me that is saying auras are only visible if you can see the object in question and things that obscure the object obscure the aura. Hence why you see an overlay and need to roll the dice if the target is hiding. The aura of a man for instance is not going to be visible through a table but the shimmery glow may stand out if he leaves a foot sticking out because your seeing something that's a shifting swirl of reds, blues, greens, etc against a dull gray backgorund rather than a black show against a pile of dark coloured bags and chairs.

Rosa

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« Reply #9 on: <05-11-16/0617:15> »
It has long been an established fact in SR that astral Space is dark, that living Things ( including the earth ) and magical Things have auras and auras are what provides what passes for light on the astral plane. Also auras are tangible Things on the astral plane ( though you may still pass through some of them, like the aura of a metahuman on the physical plane, you cannot pass through other astral forms though ). Non living Things like a Building or a car will appear as a greyish shadow on the astral plane, furthermore they are intangible in the sense that astral forms can pass through them easily, but they still obscure astral sight.

Granted when i say established facts i do Draw on my knowledge of earlier editions, this edition unfortunately have omitted some rather important, which is especially a shame in regards to those for whom 5th edition is their introduction to the World of SR.

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #10 on: <05-11-16/0625:08> »
Yeah, it's a real shame that Street Grimoire didn't bring over the Astral Visibility section from 4th Editions Street Magic if nothing else. It's no problem converting those rules to 5th Edition, but if you don't have the book because you're starting with 5th well...

Senko

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« Reply #11 on: <05-11-16/0705:16> »
Not just astral perception I have long been convinced they need a suppliment of "earlier rules that are in effect, earlier rules that are not" so we don't have the problem of people who played an earlier edition calling on knowledge that is either changed in the current one or just not specified one way or another. They may well be right but for those of us who only really know 5th it does cause a problem.