Shadowrun Play > Gamemasters' Lounge
I want to love SR6...but I dont know how.
Gmanjkd:
Thanks all for your replies.
I really appreciate you taking the time to read my LONG post and to then reply with your views. Im a little sad with the replies as I was kind of hoping for people to tell me i was crazy and that i had just misinterpreted SR6 or perhaps something like "hey dummy didnt you know that there are Adventure Modules scheduled for release later this year and they are set in Seattle" but no such luck.
I will continue to research...ill finish reading 30 nights as i have already spent the $$ on it. Hopefully something clicks and i see things differently but at this time im just not ready to write my own adventures (haven't been good at that for decades) I may continue to research using SR20A and the 2050 book to run the old classic 1e through 3e adventures.
You guys have been very helpful and welcoming.
Again thanks to everyone for your thoughts.
Reaver:
I try to stay quiet about 6e since I have not even fully read the core book yet (STILL!!). But there are a few other things here that you brought up that I can comment on, especially from my perspective.
I have been an avid Shadowrun fan since 1e, and 6e is the first edition that I have not bought a book for, nor read (nor, it seems do I have an interest, as I have an the opportunity to do so). HOWEVER, I am still playing shadowrun. Just an older edition of the game (my table has reverted to 3e.) And for the most part the reason is simple, as it was hidden.
TONE.
The Tone of the game has drastically changed in the last 3 editions. For those that are "old skool" fans of shadowrun and have access to the books: Go read them again, but ignore everything but the underlying Tone and Tension of the game world. Don't go too far out of your way, just read the core rule book, and any 2 expansion books of your choice. (and for those that don't want to, or don't have the books... I be summing it up next :D )
There is a sense of both High Tech, and dirt. A sense of progress, and regressive-ism...
For example, in 1-3 edition they talk about Gridegide... (you know, the self driving car mechanism).. and how greta it is at regulating traffic and "yadda yadda yadda"... And then right under that, you get the "real facts" (as laid out by the Runners). About how GG only really works in "A" rated and above zones. How GG can get you killed in other zones (by being hijacked and taken to a "meat chop shop"... Or just flat out doesn't work.
From 4e up... well... to quote the meme: "It just works"...
A lot of effort went into describing how the Corps work to keep people in their "hamster cages of productivity" through fear, manipulation, and control, and just how people "fell off or where pushed off the Grid"... A lot of effort was put into not only setting each race apart, but actually discussing some of the hardships those races face and feel....
From 4e up... Well, best just to say "Rose colored Glasses"...
In 1 to 3e effort was put into setting up conflicting dichotomies. Magic Vs Tech, Human VS Metahuman, Magic theory VS Magic Theory, Tech VS Humanity, (and many more!)
4e up has worked to harmonize all of this.
Sadly, it feels to me and my table, that all the efforts to "modernize" and "update" and "streamline" Shadowrun, has also cut out a piece of its soul, and has gotten lost along the way. Sure, everything that was in the older editions of shadowrun is still there... but its not.
Now, for some "old timers", they have been able to keep the old feel going in their games, but it gets harder and harder to do the more and more the editions drift from their roots. And while this may not be a problem for newer players (who never knew the old Tone and Feel..) it does create issues for those like you who can feel this difference (probably because of the books you read and so quickly).
Not sure how you are going to reconcile what your feeling with 6e... But for my table it was a reversion of editions that really hit the nail on the head for us... and why we are sticking with 3e for now (who knows what will happen in the future)
Gmanjkd:
--- Quote from: Reaver on ---I try to stay quiet about 6e since I have not even fully read the core book yet (STILL!!). But there are a few other things here that you brought up that I can comment on, especially from my perspective.
I have been an avid Shadowrun fan since 1e, and 6e is the first edition that I have not bought a book for, nor read (nor, it seems do I have an interest, as I have an the opportunity to do so). HOWEVER, I am still playing shadowrun. Just an older edition of the game (my table has reverted to 3e.) And for the most part the reason is simple, as it was hidden.
TONE.
The Tone of the game has drastically changed in the last 3 editions. For those that are "old skool" fans of shadowrun and have access to the books: Go read them again, but ignore everything but the underlying Tone and Tension of the game world. Don't go too far out of your way, just read the core rule book, and any 2 expansion books of your choice. (and for those that don't want to, or don't have the books... I be summing it up next :D )
There is a sense of both High Tech, and dirt. A sense of progress, and regressive-ism...
For example, in 1-3 edition they talk about Gridegide... (you know, the self driving car mechanism).. and how greta it is at regulating traffic and "yadda yadda yadda"... And then right under that, you get the "real facts" (as laid out by the Runners). About how GG only really works in "A" rated and above zones. How GG can get you killed in other zones (by being hijacked and taken to a "meat chop shop"... Or just flat out doesn't work.
From 4e up... well... to quote the meme: "It just works"...
A lot of effort went into describing how the Corps work to keep people in their "hamster cages of productivity" through fear, manipulation, and control, and just how people "fell off or where pushed off the Grid"... A lot of effort was put into not only setting each race apart, but actually discussing some of the hardships those races face and feel....
From 4e up... Well, best just to say "Rose colored Glasses"...
In 1 to 3e effort was put into setting up conflicting dichotomies. Magic Vs Tech, Human VS Metahuman, Magic theory VS Magic Theory, Tech VS Humanity, (and many more!)
4e up has worked to harmonize all of this.
Sadly, it feels to me and my table, that all the efforts to "modernize" and "update" and "streamline" Shadowrun, has also cut out a piece of its soul, and has gotten lost along the way. Sure, everything that was in the older editions of shadowrun is still there... but its not.
Now, for some "old timers", they have been able to keep the old feel going in their games, but it gets harder and harder to do the more and more the editions drift from their roots. And while this may not be a problem for newer players (who never knew the old Tone and Feel..) it does create issues for those like you who can feel this difference (probably because of the books you read and so quickly).
Not sure how you are going to reconcile what your feeling with 6e... But for my table it was a reversion of editions that really hit the nail on the head for us... and why we are sticking with 3e for now (who knows what will happen in the future)
--- End quote ---
Thanks so much for your reply. This has been VERY insightful. May i ask you a couple of questions.
If i were to return to an older edition my choice would be either 3e or 4e.
This is what i need it to do.
1) I have to be able to have Deckers and RIggers in the party. I know my group and my wife. Deckers and Riggers are a must.
2) I need to be able to run the old classics.
3) the (CORE) books need to be fairly priced on the resale market. I believe this is the case for both 3e and 20A.
Do you have any advice or opinions on these 3 points?
Thanks again.
Reaver:
Oh wow! Loaded question :D
To be completely honest, There is no "Perfect Edition" of Shadowrun. They all have their own unique quirks and flaws that come with each system.
I could give the pedantic answer of "Riggers and Deckers work in all editions!!" but we both know that isn't really true in spirit, as it is in fact.
Decking in 1 to 3e is, and always will be, an adventure of "The GM, The Decker, the Matrix, and the Pizza Guy".... No that is not the title of a cheesy porn movie... but a simple fact that decking in 1 to 3e is basically "Solo time for the decker" while the rest of the party assault the Pizza Guy for the food...
SR4 (20a) tried to fix this massive issue.. and basically succeeded. But by making the "Decker" archtype a defacto "tag on" for every other archtype... (decking in 4e had ZERO impact at character creation, and was entirely gear ran... right down to the skills needed :( <As in: you don't need any>).
Depending on how far back in the editions you are trying to go for your published adventures, converting them through the editions can be a royal P.I.T.A. This is because of both grand and small rules changes through the editions. For Example:
Predator damage codes:
4m3 (1e)
9m (2e/3e)
5p (4e)
8p (5e)
"What the heck! how can the same gun be all over the place for same game?!?!" I can hear many people saying... Well, the answer is the "the mechanics behind the weapon have changed, but its effectiveness has not".... And to get into that rabbit hole, we would need a long rant about dice pools, and target numbers, and all that associated stuff! (not fun!)....
so yea, if you can follow the mechanics behind the editions, you can "update" a 1e to 2e adventure after some work figuring out the new stats, dice pools and gear numbers. But if you can't... well might as well learn Greek. (OR, "fake it till you make it" also works"
Now, for us and our table. My Gm and Decker player had sat down a LONG time ago (as in like 20 years ago!) had hashed out a set of "quick hack" rules for SR 3 so that they didn't end up spending 30 minutes to hack a lock. Those rules worked so well for our table that we have, in effect, continued to use them ever since! (adapted to 4e and 5e..), So there is nothing to stop you from developing your own "quick hack" system for 3e as well.
But if you are looking for the system that is going to be the easiest to pick up and play, with out "table quick rules" AND still want to run the old school adventures, then your time and money are best spent on the 20a rule book and the 2050 (SR4a) rule book. Those 2 in combination will help you "suss" out what is going on for the most part: but do expect to spend a LOT of time converting older adventures.
Gmanjkd:
@Reaver
You.....are my hero.
Thank you sooooo much. I have been reading so much lately that my brain is gooing out of my ears. :)
This really has been helpful and will allow me to better direct my efforts.
Be safe :)
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