Shadowrun
Off-topic => Off-off-topic => Topic started by: Basic on <09-11-13/0240:51>
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Hey guys. Right now I am thinking about going to college for a Associates in computer information systems and wanted to know if you guy's think college is worth it right now ?
All I can keep thinking about is how if I don't get a job after I will become a debt slave to paying off a degree that is not getting me a job.
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For me, it wasn't. I just spent the whole time chilling out and not working. I left in the second year and am now working full time and making decent wages. That is the better option for some people. But, if you're a studious guy, and think you can do well out of it, knock yourself out.
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It's a tough question. I admit, I got lucky and walked away from college with zero debt, but that was in the "good ol' days". A college degree is definitely worth pursuing, just because it does give you a leg up in most cases. But nowadays, you might be better off working and taking the classes at night or online.
Just remember though, no matter what you choose, you will ALWAYS be a debt slave for life. And Powerball is nothing more than a pension dispensary for our super-secret government agents (think about it, you never see the twenty-something just starting out winning, do you?).
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It's a gamble. I got into College about the same time that the Dot-Com bubble burst, so when I graduated and moved to Winnipeg, I was competing against people that had 10+ years experience, certifications out the wazoo, and had previously been Network Administrators.
For a tech support job that hired anyone who took "Keyboarding" in High School.
Now? Might be quite different with that kind of degree. But it really depends on where you live/going to live.
Trades are a lot better to go into today, and are a much less gamble.
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Typically if you're chasing the industry of the month you'll end up in a crowded field that's hard to gain traction in. Find something you can excel at and enjoy and go for that, whatever it is. If that's an academic field then you need college. If it's a trade you're looking at a different path (although that can include a degree as well). Trying to pick your field based on what's hot now is almost always a losing proposition.
I think when I was in Elementary school the "can't miss" field was Aerospace Engineering. When I graduated High School Aerospace Engineers were working at McDonalds and the "can't miss" was to drop out of school and get your networking cert.
If you're specifically looking at computing right now... I don't know. There are a number of useful skill sets in CIS, but CIS is almost unique in being a field where it's very possible to get non academic certs that are as good or better than an associates degree on the resume.
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Any degree is probably better than no degree if you ask me, but like others have said it's going to depend on what you want to do.
I spent five years in the Army, and only got a job because I a) knew someone who knew someone, and b) had developed a skill set valued by the mega's one is unlikely to obtain elsewhere in civilian life.
So, if it hadn't been for my Army background, I very much doubt I would be in the same situation I am now, for better and worse. On that vein, I would highly recommend serving, not because I'm a diehard "everybody should serve!" type of guy, but because my experiences (good and bad) shaped me into the man I am today, and I for one came out better off than I went in. Also, the people. Won't find a bond like that anywhere else.
Best of luck to you in any case :)
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For me I love working with computers and work for my self repairing computers currently. I wanna move into computer security and become a penetration tester that is why I I wanna get a degree.
Oh and if you don't know what a Penetration tester is. Well They are like shadowrunners but legal. You are paid to find holes in the security of the people paying you by acting like the criminals who want to get in and tell them how to fix those holes.
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I went Air Force with some college after, with the schooling being pretty much paid for by that time in service.
Service can give you a good transition for a young adult, plus cyberwarfare is a growing concern and one the military has to consider so you may find a career in computers there as well.
If you get really good you could even serve on their 'red teams', the Army runs one of the biggest and includes penetration hackers among their ranks.
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I would recommend it, not only for the degree, but because generally University gets you thinking in different ways, questioning things differently and so forth. For ICT Security, you will defininently need it, but keep in mind, its unlikely you will find your ideal IT job right of the bat. You may end do some fairly boring integration testing, or some server configuration etc. And some of your future collegues will get there without the full degree. But your degree will come in useful down the track and ultimately will help open doors that may have been closed to you otherwise.
Regardless, best of luck with whatever path you choose. And always, always, keep on learning.
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The cab I took last week was driven by an IT professional.
The steak I ate last night in the bar by a woman with a masters degree in sociology...
If I was you, I would take a look at the last 5 years for the field you are wanting to study. If the wages are dropping, then so is the demand.... And you are saddled with debt and asking if I would like fries with my steak.
••••
20 years ago I went into trades (Electrical/ industrial instrumentation mechanics) and everyone thought I was a sucker as 'computers is the way of the future'! Or thought I should study business admin....
Well, I have made six figures for the last 15 years, take MONTHS off at a time, have travelled and worked in a dozen countries over the world on my employer's dime... And was debt free from my student loans WEEKS after completing each year of school. (in Canada, trades require hours worked spaced with classroom time)...
So if you are trying to plan for your future be aware that technology degrees in many cases come with an expiry date of "the next big breakthrough"....
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It really just depends on what you want in life and what interests you. I always planned to go, but in the end I didn't. I have quite a nice and lucrative career which I enjoy thoroughly. That would be professional poker. Not for everyone, but I find it to be the most suitable career for me and I've never had a boss, schedule or anything else, it's great. So again, it depends on what you want in life. There is always some obscure opportunity waiting for you if you decide to seek it out.
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The cab I took last week was driven by an IT professional.
The steak I ate last night in the bar by a woman with a masters degree in sociology...
If I was you, I would take a look at the last 5 years for the field you are wanting to study. If the wages are dropping, then so is the demand.... And you are saddled with debt and asking if I would like fries with my steak.
••••
20 years ago I went into trades (Electrical/ industrial instrumentation mechanics) and everyone thought I was a sucker as 'computers is the way of the future'! Or thought I should study business admin....
Well, I have made six figures for the last 15 years, take MONTHS off at a time, have travelled and worked in a dozen countries over the world on my employer's dime... And was debt free from my student loans WEEKS after completing each year of school. (in Canada, trades require hours worked spaced with classroom time)...
So if you are trying to plan for your future be aware that technology degrees in many cases come with an expiry date of "the next big breakthrough"....
Well mostly I wanna study the security end and from what I am looking at no matter what new tech there is you still will need security because there are always people breaking it.
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The cab I took last week was driven by an IT professional.
The steak I ate last night in the bar by a woman with a masters degree in sociology...
If I was you, I would take a look at the last 5 years for the field you are wanting to study. If the wages are dropping, then so is the demand.... And you are saddled with debt and asking if I would like fries with my steak.
••••
20 years ago I went into trades (Electrical/ industrial instrumentation mechanics) and everyone thought I was a sucker as 'computers is the way of the future'! Or thought I should study business admin....
Well, I have made six figures for the last 15 years, take MONTHS off at a time, have travelled and worked in a dozen countries over the world on my employer's dime... And was debt free from my student loans WEEKS after completing each year of school. (in Canada, trades require hours worked spaced with classroom time)...
So if you are trying to plan for your future be aware that technology degrees in many cases come with an expiry date of "the next big breakthrough"....
Well mostly I wanna study the security end and from what I am looking at no matter what new tech there is you still will need security because there are always people breaking it.
All I am saying is "Do your research" Last thing you want is 60k in debt and a $15/hr job...
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All I am saying is "Do your research" Last thing you want is 60k in debt and a $15/hr job...
Frag, I'd have done quite a few things for a $15/hour job.
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All I am saying is "Do your research" Last thing you want is 60k in debt and a $15/hr job...
Frag, I'd have done quite a few things for a $15/hour job.
last time I worked for LESS than $16/hr, min wage was $4.35 /hr...
Now, the wage is between $40-175/hr... depending on the working conditions, the job in question, etc...
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There are lots of different options depending on where you live and the field that you want to enter.
For my money, the best bet is to find internships while taking your general education requirements that every degree requires. It gives you experience to add to you resume and lets you figure out if it is a field that you want to be in.
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Frag, I'd have done quite a few things for a $15/hour job.
last time I worked for LESS than $16/hr, min wage was $4.35 /hr...
Now, the wage is between $40-175/hr... depending on the working conditions, the job in question, etc...
Count yourself lucky.
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Bachelor of Art (International Relations/Asian Studies/Commerce) with a Masters in Professional Accounting.
Jobs in the IT industry (Business Analyst/Project Manager, so pure IT skills weren't neccessary). But often your degree is not always a true indicator of your actual path in life. Sometimes, after years of study and years of entry level work, this is a good things. I know many accountants who do everything but actual accounting, and I know at least one civil engineer who was a CEO of a top 6 bank here in australia. Civil Engineering and banking... would not have seen that mix working so well, but it did.
Currently I'm $100/hr. And that's considered medium for my role/industry/location.
So, yeah, Uni pays off sometimes. Not for everyone, sure, but it can.
But attitude is alway, always the most important indicator of wether you will be successful. Never accept the status quo, always push yourself, always challenge yourself, remain positive no matter what (this is the hardest thing, because a bad job or series of bad jobs can lead to making oneself feel quiet bitter, and bitterness never leads to happiness). Problems, in all their forms, are challenges which help us grow and develop when we overcome them. Failures are opportunities to learn and reflect.
The ability to listen, really listen, and understand where someone is coming from, communicate and show empathy for the people around you, help your fellow co-workers, even the ones you don't like, and always look at ways you make things better.
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Hi!, Im from Venezuela so i don't know if my advice can be useful, im an Informatics Egeneer waiting for grade act wich is this October, the thing is ive specialiced myself in program coding, and several programation Languages XCode, C, C++, Basic, Pascal, Turbo Pascal, Gnome, Assembler and Kobol, i also have a honda robotics certification and i am working to perfect my english (i can read it perfectly, understand it spoken in most cases, slang costs a bit but i can understand the basic) while i am studying Chinesee. Thing is my country economy is depressed badly, however my debt is close to zero thanks to a simple set of rules ive forced on myself:
1.- If it pays its good: Sure i could be asking some dude in a restaurant if he liked fries with his stake, that dosen't mean i gave up nor that im not looking for a better job, it just mean that i am working honestly for my dreams.
2.- People are Dicks, I don't have to be people: A Smile opens a thousand doors, my first job was taking the trash and cleaning the floor of a civil engeneers firm, i smiled to people, joked with them and one day when the tech guy did not appeared and they had a problem with the server i asked if i could cheked it and they allowed me, i looked it fixed some problems with the Swiths and i got my first job on the area as tech support. (The Firm later went bankrupt)
3.- Dont be a comformist: You think you can do it better then do so! people in most cases will appreciate it and if not you are losing your time with that company
4.- Never ever lie!: That is self explanatory sincerity is the best weapon, bosses prefer a mediocre sincere person over a lying genius, if you can be a sincere professional then many doors will open.
5.- Always strive to start your own bussiness or the seat in a good executive, or higher position in a Mega! Never work for the company, work for yourself if the company beneficiates from this then both partys are happy.
My advice is take the College only if you are ready to work your ass off, and to push forward non stop 24/7 (of course leave some time for good old fashioned shadowrun game or other hobby or fun thing to do so you don't burn out!
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Don't take this the wrong way Basic, but your topic title alone tells me that yes, college would be worth it. :)
Do you guy's think college is worth it ?
"guys" not "guy's", and no space between "it" and the question mark. :)
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http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=12978.msg241486#msg241486
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As a professor, the best answer I can give is a thorough "maybe."
Because, honestly, it comes down to what field you want to study, how much different degrees will help you, what the market's like, what the market will be like when you finish your degree, what sort of school you go to, where you live, what kind of debt you can handle, what kind of scholarships you can get, what kind of contacts you might have to help out the whole process...
There are a lot of variables there, and the real answer is that it varies from person to person, job to job, region to region, and all those other variables. Your best bet is to find it out for yourself -- check with folks at the school you want to go into, check with folks you know in that field, check with the folks in your scene, not someone else's, because it's your life that's gonna be changed (one way or the other) by all this.
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http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=12978.msg241486#msg241486
[from me earlier in the tread, so everything is tied together]
The cab I took last week was driven by an IT professional.
The steak I ate last night in the bar by a woman with a masters degree in sociology...
If I was you, I would take a look at the last 5 years for the field you are wanting to study. If the wages are dropping, then so is the demand.... And you are saddled with debt and asking if I would like fries with my steak.
••••
20 years ago I went into trades (Electrical/ industrial instrumentation mechanics) and everyone thought I was a sucker as 'computers is the way of the future'! Or thought I should study business admin....
Well, I have made six figures for the last 15 years, take MONTHS off at a time, have travelled and worked in a dozen countries over the world on my employer's dime... And was debt free from my student loans WEEKS after completing each year of school. (in Canada, trades require hours worked spaced with classroom time)...
So if you are trying to plan for your future be aware that technology degrees in many cases come with an expiry date of "the next big breakthrough"....
noticed you didn't link the one describing my current working conditions.... or the pay for said conditions :P :D
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This is one of those things that's so subjective it's hardly worth answering.
However, no degree here and went from Air Force comms to Department of Defense to school district to private company. I don't make crazy money but enough to support family and the wife can stay home and do the hard work of raising the kids, though she is working part time at a daycare the last few years as the kids get older.
Taking college classes but pretty sporadic, OTOH, I have the work experience to offset that.
All that being said, it never hurts to have a degree. Just don't go into debt to get it.
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noticed you didn't link the one describing my current working conditions.... or the pay for said conditions
You're an outlier, I'm not going to hold you up as a common example.
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Disclosure: I have a Bachelor of Engineering in Mechanical Engineering from a private engineering school, finished paying off my student loan debt after 8 years, and have been a controls engineer for 12 years. Since the day I graduated, I've spent a grand total of 2 weeks without a job within my field and those two weeks were conscious choices to take a few days off between leaving one job and starting a second.
If you're not looking to get into law, engineering, medicine, finance, or a hard science like biology, chemistry, or physics, going to college is going to mean a huge amount of debt that doesn't do a lot to help you make more money.
For what you're looking to do, getting an Associates Degree in Information Security and then spending a few years in the Navy or Air Force seems like a more cost effective and overall effective career path. The AD will increase your chances of getting into the part of your chosen service that aligns with your goals, and in addition to the immediate benefits of serving, will get you a leg up on the professional contacts that you'll need to get into the IS testing world.