[Nobodi99]

Dear Shadowrun Community,

after playing Shadowrun for a few months now I'm loosing the will to look through most of the books to find what Skill/Attribute is needed to do a special task.

Because of that I wanted to ask if someone has an overview of the most common tasks and what I need to perform them (such as Agility + Pistols to shoot or something...)

I would be really happy if someone can provide such a list for me because I totally need it.


Greetings, Nobodi

[FastJack]

Here ya go, Nobodi. Perhaps the cheat sheets will help you keep your stuff together.

[voydangel]

Also bear in mind that a lot of them are more or less self explanatory and you can just kinda make up what to roll on the fly (if you're the GM) during game, and then look up what it should have been later on. So long as you're consistent, you will get the hang of it over time.

[AJBuwalda]

It might be a good idea to note stuff on you character sheet. For example you can always note things down like this:
Pistols [AGI]: X
To use it you know to use X dice plus the number equal to you agility without having to look it up. Five minutes extra put into character creation for alot of save time you don't need to search the books.

[Chaemera]

Most of the character sheets do include a space to write in the linked attribute. Of course, then you have the confused player who didn't read everything in the Wireless chapter that is adding Data Search + Logic + Browse to look up info on a clue. . . so sometimes that bites you in the rear.

[voydangel]

I'm still to this day trying to figure out a way to make logic actually be useful to hackers. Or preferentially even necessary. Makes no sense that you can be the best hacker ever with a logic of 1 - so long as you max your skills and programs.

[Chaemera]

I'm still to this day trying to figure out a way to make logic actually be useful to hackers. Or preferentially even necessary. Makes no sense that you can be the best hacker ever with a logic of 1 - so long as you max your skills and programs.

... replace the program or complex form in each Success, Opposed or Extended Test with the appropriate attribute (usually Logic). The maximum number of hits (not net hits) that can be generated by each Matrix Test is limited to the rating of the program or complex form in a manner similar to the way Spellcasting hits are limiited by the Force of a spell (see Force, p. 118). Agents, IC, and sprites would use their Pilot rating in place of the attribute required.
     Alternatively, the various Matrix Tests can remain unchanged. Instead, the attribute (again, usually Logic) limits the hits (not net hits) of every test in the same manner described above. In either case, each Matrix Action requires the use of the appropriate program.

I like both of these solutions, but prefer the first for two reasons:
1) Consistent with the rules of almost every other check in the game.
2) A smart person, even with little skill, can code. It just might take longer. An idiot can't code, no matter how good his compiler is. Or, if you prefer, a degree in graphic arts isn't based on whether you use Paintshop, Photoshop, or MS Paint. Though this may limit your end-product somewhat.

[Bradd]

Eh, I'm not fond of linking all computery stuff to Logic, especially hacking stuff. Intuition is arguably just as important, especially for the "on the fly" stuff.

[voydangel]

Eh, I'm not fond of linking all computery stuff to Logic, especially hacking stuff. Intuition is arguably just as important, especially for the "on the fly" stuff.

This is very true, I just find it exceedingly odd that it's more or less the only place in the game where people don't roll an attribute for said tasks. Pretty darn near everything else in the entire game is "Attribute + Skill".

[Bradd]

Skillwires are Attribute + Program, hacking is Program + Skill.

[voydangel]

I'm still to this day trying to figure out a way to make logic actually be useful to hackers. Or preferentially even necessary. Makes no sense that you can be the best hacker ever with a logic of 1 - so long as you max your skills and programs.

... replace the program or complex form in each Success, Opposed or Extended Test with the appropriate attribute (usually Logic). The maximum number of hits (not net hits) that can be generated by each Matrix Test is limited to the rating of the program or complex form in a manner similar to the way Spellcasting hits are limiited by the Force of a spell (see Force, p. 118). Agents, IC, and sprites would use their Pilot rating in place of the attribute required.
     Alternatively, the various Matrix Tests can remain unchanged. Instead, the attribute (again, usually Logic) limits the hits (not net hits) of every test in the same manner described above. In either case, each Matrix Action requires the use of the appropriate program.

I like both of these solutions, but prefer the first for two reasons:
1) Consistent with the rules of almost every other check in the game.
2) A smart person, even with little skill, can code. It just might take longer. An idiot can't code, no matter how good his compiler is. Or, if you prefer, a degree in graphic arts isn't based on whether you use Paintshop, Photoshop, or MS Paint. Though this may limit your end-product somewhat.

I had forgotten about that optional bit. I seem to recall bringing it up in a thread here a while back and got shot down for liking it. Oh well. That's why they're optional.

Anyway...  

/thread jack  (sorry)

[voydangel]

Skillwires are Attribute + Program, hacking is Program + Skill.

Yea, but in that case the program is the skill, so it still follows suit. 

[Bradd]

And in the latter case, the program is the attribute!

Unless you use hacking activesofts. Then you've got Program + Program.

[voydangel]

I'll have to agree to disagree, I just don't see it that way. In my mind, you should never be able to replace an Attribute, that's kind of the point of having them in my mind. The idea being that attributes are the thing that defines your base abilities, it's the idea that the concept of defaulting is based on. Skills are learned through experience and practice, attributes are inherent. So the idea of a skillsoft being loaded is equivalent to uploading a bunch of raw data into your brain, which is feasible. Even muscle memory could be defined as raw data fairly easily because of how the brain stores that type of information. But the idea of replacing your raw natural ability to use and understand technology with just a bunch of data just doesn't fly with my interpretation of how the system works, or my understanding of how the human brain functions. Obviously other interpretations are perfectly valid, but implying that a cluster of a few dozen programs (including "Stealth", "ECCM", "Edit", etc.) is equivalent to a persons ability to use a computer just makes no sense to me. Maybe if you explain what you meant by that a little more I might be able to rationalize it a wee bit, but as it stands I just flat out disagree.

Unless you were just being glib with that whole "programs are attributes" thing, in which case -->  "well played". 

[Bradd]

Well that pretty much is the game rationale for it: Your programs really are your Matrix attributes. The Matrix has a lot of analogues with the Astral, and this is one of them. In astral projection, you no longer use your physical attributes. In virtual reality, you no longer use your mental attributes. In both cases, the rules of the alternate reality require different "attributes." On the Astral, you use mental attributes instead. In the Matrix, you use software.

Oh, and don't forget that you can even replace your attributes in the real world, with 'ware like cyberlimbs. I don't see attributes as fundamental, but more like very broad skill groups. Not many things can cover the same scope, but in limited situations (like tracing a signal or lifting something heavy) you can cover them just fine.