[Minnzy]

Edit: Answered. Thanks everyone!

So I'm quite new to Shadowrun, in general, having only played my first non-videogame of it early this year. I enjoy hyper-intellectual magical types in D&D and decided to stick with what I know so have a character with a photographic memory and analytical mind just to name a few with extremely high mental stats as the plan was to make a brainiac with mild autism. Having autism myself (Sadly not the genius level mind) I figured it would help me play my character in social situations better.

Anyway, those two mentioned qualities were taken hoping to be used after an event like what took place in our current run (Nothing violent, just a party). Basically, the plan was that after events took place my character, while in a more peaceful, less crowded environment could "reflect" on what happened, recall the events with her photographic memory and then use her analytical mind to discover something she may have missed during the more stressful moment. Obviously, with a successful memory roll.

Now, I can't quote my ST directly because the above makes perfect sense to me and when he shot the idea down I immediately reflected on how I worded it as I have done most of my life to help me overcome my social issues so my recollection of his response could be faulty. Basically, I believe he stated that because I didn't specify "I want to commit this event to memory" I couldn't possibly recall the information I want because the type of memory that records everything 100% of the time almost always comes with other extreme things.

Now, I know D&D and Shadowrun are different but isn't that entirely for the dice to decide? I know walking around as a human(Elven) video recorder 24/7 is asking a lot but shouldn't my photographic memory come down to the roll and not stating "I want to specifically record this event to roll for later" with the difficulty being decided on what the ST believes may have been causing distractions? To me it's like telling a Loremaster in D&D 3.5 he can't use his Knowledge Arcana skill that has a bonus of 35 to identify a dragon because he never stated he picked up a book about dragons in the past.

He's a got a great mind for running games and I honestly think I messed up how I asked but figured I'd ask some more experienced players than myself.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

When you say ST I presume you mean "Storyteller".  It's not really a big deal but the Shadowrun referee is called a Game Master (GM)... I only point it out because I suspect that cooperative storytelling games may be something you're more familiar with... D&D isn't one but your usual D&D DM may run the game like a cooperative storytelling game for all I can tell!

A couple of bits of general advice: I don't know how comfortable you are with explaining your autism in person, but if you have a discussion with your shadowrun group it might pay dividends.  For starters, it's the kind of game that's challenging for the GM to ensure everyone shares the spotlight and it can often turn into whoever's the loudest and most obnoxious with demanding the GM's attention is who gets it!

Another tip I'd suggest is when the GM tells you the resource you have doesn't allow the feat you want to accomplish, ask him what resource WOULD allow it.  In this case, ask him if Photographic Memory won't allow me to mentally revisit the scene and try to see what I can notice that I didn't notice at the time... then what would?  And if he just wants you to have a different quality (or set of qualities) I'd also suggest asking after the session if you can have a mulligan to rebuild your character a bit, as this is clearly the concept you were trying for.

Now, with regards to some specific suggestions other than/in addition to Photographic Memory, I'm sure we can give you some ideas.  Is your character a magician or mundane?  Cybernetic augmentations and magic give two fairly different pools of possibilities.

[Minnzy]

I was going to say GM but for some reason, I was thinking Vampire which I believe refers to them as ST. Played that recently so it was on my mind. It took me so long to not constantly use DM I trip over the terms often.

And my GM is aware of it though I tend not to bring it up. Granted he does a good job sharing the spotlight and actively helps me participate as I often sit back quietly.

My character is a magician with no augmentations. Though I wasn't originally after other options more so if I were crazy thinking that the quality should work that and not remembering should be entirely roll based. Granted I'd never turn down suggestions and my GM would allow changes like that if it was due to misunderstandings. Especially since my character is designed to be super intelligent but also lack skills (Currently) that make her useful. Her memory was meant to be her best asset.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

It could be as simple a case of the GM not realizing what you're trying to do with the character.  I'd suggest some offline or pre-session communication, and next time your character is in such a situation just make sure you let the GM know in whatever way "counts" for him that you want to try to get a good memory of a place/event for later recall.

[Overbyte]

One simple option to kinda get around this issue is.. to buy either contact lenses or glasses that have a camera built in.

[PiXeL01]

Otherwise there is the way of Augmentation to solve what you would like to do. Cybereyes can record without addiction camera implantation and cyberears can record as well.
Of course this would mean that you would sacrifice a point of essence and therefore Magic.

This can be tied to the Negative Quality: Electronic Witness from Data Trails p. 48 (karma 5) which forces a character to record everything they see and hear. That way you do not have to state it all the time.

[Mollari]

Hoi Minnzy

Thanks for sharing, and you've come to the right place, this community is awesome.

On the note of the photographic memory quality, I would agree with your GM. Whilst a true photographic memory is an amazing thing, it doesn't impart a supernatural ability to isolate information.

If you sat in a cafe for an hour and then asked to hear clearly the conversation of three tables across the barrier may be that you physically didn't have acute enough hearing to differentiate.

If you cast your eyes over an environment, unless you tale the time to view everything and focus your eyes properly then you wont recall details that you couldn't perceive.

My advice would be to explain to your gm what you're paying attention for before going in. Explain your paying attention to their faces and want to review later if anyone looked nervous. Had darting eyes, was sweating etc.

By explaining that you'll focus on their faces and rely on your memory to review the information later your gm should be able to accommodate.

Good luck

[Marcus]

So if i was asked this question, and it was just flat with no rolls attached, ie some method of determining and some meaningful level of success and consequences for failure, I would also shoot it down. I'd encourage you to discuss it again, starting off with using the Attribute only tests (see 152 of the Core),  Memory (Logic+WIL), which photographic Memory gives you +2 on. Then discussing what you would be rolling to analyse these events. (A roll that would very likely change depending situation.)   This gives your GM a clear method of arbitration, and doesn't make photographic memory an instant recall superpower.

[Minnzy]

I think you may have misread my post. I never said I wished to have perfect recall at all times without rolling. I wanted to roll but was simply denied the chance to. I'm not attempting to play Sheldon from Big Bang Theory. I just felt the dice should decide for me given the description of photographic memory states "A character with Photographic Memory can instantly recall facts, dates, numbers, or anything else he has seen or heard."

One thing I completely missed in my original post was that I had actually attempted to look at the guests to identify anything suspicious but due to a botched stealth roll for something related it was cut off. Which is why I wanted to be able to roll in what was basically going to be meditation to see if maybe I saw more than I thought I did at the time.

[JudgeMonroe]

I think you may have misread my post. I never said I wished to have perfect recall at all times without rolling. I wanted to roll but was simply denied the chance to. I'm not attempting to play Sheldon from Big Bang Theory. I just felt the dice should decide for me given the description of photographic memory states "A character with Photographic Memory can instantly recall facts, dates, numbers, or anything else he has seen or heard."

One thing I completely missed in my original post was that I had actually attempted to look at the guests to identify anything suspicious but due to a botched stealth roll for something related it was cut off. Which is why I wanted to be able to roll in what was basically going to be meditation to see if maybe I saw more than I thought I did at the time.

This is the kind of thing that requires collaboration between the player and the GM. That is, you guys have to be on the same page. Now, there are two things I'd like to point out:

1. The "Photographic Memory" Quality has a mechanical advantage that adds 2 dice to "all Memory tests" and a Memory Test can be used to recall information at a later time. Your "meditation" gimmick is a role-playing implementation of a Memory Test. The problem, as I see it, is you want to *combine* the "Analytical Mind" quality with the Memory Test to "remember" something you never knew in the first place, i.e., you're asking the GM to give you free-form details that "you might have missed" after the fact. This isn't what the mechanics of these rules intend to do, even if you have a cool role-playing angle on it. If the GM isn't on the same page as you on your RP schtick, then that's the reason he's denying the roll in the first place. Try being very specific when asking for your Memory Test about the details you're trying to recall. Don't make it an open-ended question ("What could I have missed?") but make it a specific question ("Do I remember that guy looking nervous when I asked about the secret lab in the basement?" or "Was the Johnson wearing any rings on his left hand when we met him?"). To be clear: don't try to turn your Memory Tests into a fishing expedition. Ask for details that will actually clarify the thing your character is working on. Do not expect Photographic Memory to cause your GM to spoon-feed post-hoc and arbitrary information.

2. The Memory Test has an allowance for "active memorization" where taking the time to explicitly memorize a thing has a mechanical advantage when later attempting a Memory Test to remember that thing...on top of the Photographic Memory advantage. If your GM keeps shooting down your Memory Test requests, starting declaring these "active memorization" actions in the middle of scenes to flag to yourself and your GM that your character is trying to keep on his toes and is paying attention. Now, once you do this a few times, it's going to start getting on everybody's nerves, especially your GM. Don't be a dick about it, you're just trying to nudge him onto your page and establish a baseline expectation for your character in regards to Memory issues. Try things like "I study his facial expressions as we ask about the secret lab in the basement. I'd like to roll a Memory Test now so I can recall this later."

Good luck.

[Reaver]

Part of the issue here too may be the in the understanding of just what "Photographic memory" actually means.... and its not what many people think it is.

Yes, this is wikipedia, but it serves for our purposes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eidetic_memory


in a nutshell, Photographic memory has to do more with written and printed text, than it does with "Sherlock Holmes Vision" (being able to glance around a room and then pick out every single detail). So, if you had glanced at a page of text, or some other list of displayed info, then your Quality would kick in. The Quality even alludes to this, but could have worded it better. (and admitted they throw on that "anything they see or hear" bit on the end, which is NOT photographic memory)

PHOTOGRAPHIC MEMORY
COST: 6 KARMA
A character with Photographic Memory can instantly
recall facts, dates, numbers, or anything else he has
seen or heard. The character gains a +2 dice pool modifier
to all Memory Tests

Analytic Mind gives you +2 for basically any type of puzzle test or gather info test - which makes it very useful. But, there has to be a puzzle there to start with, and a general scene may not have any useful information for you (This, of course, depends on the scene, and what it actually happening. Remember, sometimes, a Duck is just a Duck.)


This issue is probably going to be best solved by sitting down with your GM and having a face to face discussion on what you are wanting out of your character, that way the GM understands, and can help you to work to wards that (or even rework the character to fit what you are wanting). Its the best way to start at least.

[Minnzy]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I think I know why it's been such a bother for me with the skill. As I said I have recently come off a vampire campaign that had Eidetic memory as a trait with the text

"You can remember things seen and heard with perfect detail. By gaining at least one success on an Intelligence + Alertness roll, you can recall any sight or sound accurately, even if you heard it or glanced at it only once (although the difficulty of such a feat would be high). Five successes enable you to recall an event perfectly: The Storyteller relates to you exactly what was seen or heard."

And before that I had played a 5th edition campaign in D&D with Keen mind which allows you to simply remember everything from the last month.

Though similar, the vampire trait clearly states you don't even need to have really put effort into it so just going off rules as written Shadowrun is (Obviously) different.

Given peoples responses, I think it's clear I've just seen too much of those particular traits (Mainly Vampire) in Photographic memory. Other systems are just too fresh in my mind it seems. I'll still take most of you up on your advice though, thanks heaps

[Reaver]

ah yes, the dangers of playing too many games; Trait Confusion

It happens to us all!

[Cabral]

Not quite related to your question, but have you looked at the Recorded Room spell from Shadow Spells? It's sustained, one scene, and visual only, but may be a good fit for your character.

[Michael Chandra]

ah yes, the dangers of playing too many games; Trait Confusion

It happens to us all!

Would that be a Glitch or a Critical Glitch on a Memory Test?

Anyway, first off I agree with the Judge's advice. I also suggest you get used to repeatedly say during scenes that you are trying to actively memorise (keep in mind this will distract you, so could be a social faux pas).

But there's two more cents I'd like to add: Your GM appears to be violating my personal 'The characters are professionals' rule by not allowing ANY Memory Test at all. If it makes sense for the character to pay attention to something, then the character should do that even if the player doesn't remember to state they do. So asides from very specific things, they should NOT demand you actively memorised something to be allowed a Memory+2 Roll for it. The active memory works, but OF COURSE your character paid attention and spotted some details that you didn't actively ask about before!

To quote myself:

Our characters know a lot we don’t. And vice versa, we know a lot they don’t. So we separate that. If the character reasonably could have come up with something smart, or not have made the dumb decision an uninformed player is making, then there should be a roll to see if they realize. Or even an automatic correction, like how I handled the ammo-case. The characters are professionals after all.

Edit: For the record, any GM violating this rule deliberately is, as far as I'm concerned, also breaking Wheaton's Law.