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[SR5] House Rules

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Kanly

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« Reply #150 on: <01-25-14/0632:22> »
I'd rather see it broken down into something like the following, with the option to replace one skill per group with a related exotic ranged weapon skill. Would probably still cause problems.
Gunnery can stay a Vehicle skill.

Firearms
Small Arms(Ranged Tazers to SMGs)
Long Arms (Carbines to Sniper Rifles)
Shotguns

Heavy Weapons
Grenade Launchers
Missile Launchers
Machine Guns

So Heavy Weapons stays the same, Shotguns skill is extremely limited and Small and Long Arms are uber? :S

I don't see how this is balanced.

Novocrane

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« Reply #151 on: <01-25-14/0924:03> »
Last check, Heavy Weapons is one skill by RAW, not a skill group.

As it stands, I forgot that these are the current Heavy Weapon specialisations, which frees up space to further split firearms.

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Assault Cannons
Grenade Launchers
Guided Missiles
Machine Guns
Rocket Launchers

Kanly

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« Reply #152 on: <01-25-14/0946:06> »
Hmm yes you're right, I somehow forgot to note you transformed Heavy Weapons into 3 skills.
The problem with this is that Heavy Weapons don't see that frequent use, so it's kinda unbalanced to split it any further.

And still having a whole separate skill allowing you to use only Shotguns, while another skill allowing you to use anything from Tasers to SMGs is nowhere near balanced or fair.
With this you would see most chars just buying Small Arms and leaving it at that.

I'm guessing you're playing some sort of a Military campaign? B/c there it could make sense to split HW since it will see a LOT of use - and on the other hand you wouldn't really see any "Small Arms" so that kinda works too. So my conclusion is this: if it's a military campaign it's a good ruling, if it's shadowrunning it's dangerously unbalanced.

Sorry for the negativity, didn't mean to offend, just to heavily criticize :)

FasterN8

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« Reply #153 on: <01-25-14/1252:48> »
​Okay so I was feeling a little bit constrained by the priority​​ ​system and I decided to do something about it since I don't feel like waiting for 2D6 months for Run Faster.

My goal was to come up with a solution that matches the priority table as closely as possible but gives some room to customize characters and tweak particularly tough builds on a more granular level​.​ To that end,​​ ​I've interpolated between the data points given by the priority table to provide a finer selection of build characteristics. It's a 100 point build with​ ​​the same categories as the Priority system. Each category ranges from 0 to 40 points in value, where 40 points corresponds to priority A, 30 points​ ​​to ​B, 20 points C, 10 points D and 0 points E. For the purely numerical priorities I did my best to follow a smooth progression that hit all the priority table's data points . For categories that were more complex, I did my best to fit a natural progression to the data, in most cases it was a increasing "Rate of return" (for lack of a better term) to the points allocated.

​​https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmhcKfB4dBwWdHh0YkJ3S3ladE0wRE5CLW1rUjBmTFE&usp=sharing​

​What I've ended up with is kind of more of a hybrid-priority/point-buy since it matches with the priority table so closely. The purpose was not to make a tool for creating more powerful characters, but to have some more flexibility in character creation.

​Caveats:
1) The bonus skills and spells in the magic priority have all been converted to their karma values​ so that Aspected Magicians can buy skills or spells as they see fit.  Aspected Sorcerers are much less onerous to build with this.
2) In the Skill category the point-buy levels are only linear ​if you consider skill points and group points separately. Taken together, each incremental group point creates a significant jump in value. To avoid that step-function, I combined estimated karma values for those levels and created a smoother progression. Buying skill groups is unrestricted using karma-buy for skills.
3) The karma-buy values in the skill category is somewhat subjective since something like 18 skill points (Pri E or 0 BP) can be used to get 666 in skills and is worth 126 karma whereas the same 18 points can buy 64332 (a more well rounded character) but is only worth 92 karma.
4) While most values on the chart are interpolated, I extrapolated in a couple places, like where the Metatype priority - Dwarf (0) might fall and also values above 40 BP in the Resources category for higher level play.
5) It occurred to me this morning that this could be exploited by spending BPs: 40-40-20-0-0 on the categories.  To limit chicanery of this sort I'd limit a characters highest 2 categories to a total of 70, so a character could still go 35, 35 for their top 2.

Please take a look and let me know if you see any glaring errors or exploits that I've missed. (or if something is terribly confusing)

Thanks,
​FasterN8​

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #154 on: <01-25-14/1402:00> »
You're quite optimisic with 2D6, I'm assuming 3D6+6 myself.
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Novocrane

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« Reply #155 on: <01-25-14/2312:03> »
Sorry for the negativity, didn't mean to offend, just to heavily criticize :)
Not at all! It's for appropriating a high octane PMC campaign that failed to get off the ground a while back due to GM's IRL stuff. While I've been mulling over different options, and don't particularly like the core weapons skills, I haven't had a strong sense of direction with it. Namikaze's post & the conversation that followed helped bring some perspective I didn't have before.

Namikaze

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« Reply #156 on: <01-26-14/0144:59> »
I could see the Small Arms and Long Arms skills being realistic, but finding a third category just to fit the skill groups would be problematic.  And I think that's ultimately the problem with the firearms skills as they are.  I've been pondering this, and I don't know of a better way to express the skills than the way that is in the book or the suggestion that I made.  I realize that SMGs is a smaller category than Pistols or Longarms, but I can't think of a better solution without getting rid of an otherwise very useful skill group.
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RHat

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« Reply #157 on: <01-26-14/0543:56> »
I could see the Small Arms and Long Arms skills being realistic

You do have to ask yourself if that's worth the balance problems, though - realistic is not intrinsically better.
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martinchaen

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« Reply #158 on: <01-26-14/2134:35> »
If you want realism, just get rid of the skill groups for firearms all together... Being good at firing a shotgun does not equal being good at firing a sniper rifle, nor does being good at firing an assault rifle make you good at firing a machine pistol.

Keep the skills, split the group's entirely. Alternatively, find slightly less broad groups that actually make sense, if realism is your concern. Game balance is fairly decent right now in terms of skills in my opinion.

Davidvs

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« Reply #159 on: <01-28-14/2232:10> »
Most players don't like to "gimp" their character's potential by missing out on a useful skill when they can drop some "inconsequential fluff" instead.   With this rule, players can give their characters some interesting and flavourful knowledge skills without feeling like they're giving up an advantage to do so.

Another idea is to write the adventures that having an unusual skill comes into play. ex: a powerful Yakuza boss that the PCs want as a contact who will not consider their request until the PC, who is doing the talking, learns some proper skills (Origami, etc). Or PCs who need to spy on two NPCs who communicate on paper and fold the notes into Origami - so they can tell if the note has been tampered with before it is sent across the city...the PCs need the skill to unfold and refold the note without being detected.  Etc with other skills. If the PCs have the skill then they hit the easy button, if not then they have to do something the hard way.

JackVII

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« Reply #160 on: <02-06-14/0817:02> »
Here's a quick House Rule I am considering implementing:

When an opponent is within melee range (defined in the Interception Special Action), any attack made by that opponent which offers a defense test is considered a melee attack for the purpose of defense (allowing Dodge/Block/Parry to be used) unless other rules already exist (e.g. getting run over by a car).
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RHat

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« Reply #161 on: <02-06-14/1700:06> »
Here's a quick House Rule I am considering implementing:

When an opponent is within melee range (defined in the Interception Special Action), any attack made by that opponent which offers a defense test is considered a melee attack for the purpose of defense (allowing Dodge/Block/Parry to be used) unless other rules already exist (e.g. getting run over by a car).

I might suggest amending that to make longer weapons (Assault Rifles, for example) more vulnerable to it than shorter weapons (SMGs, as an example) so that the CQC-centric weapon types actually carry part of their real-world advantage.
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Kanly

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« Reply #162 on: <02-06-14/1709:25> »
I Houseruled that pistols don't suffer any penalty in melee. Got used to it in Dark Heresy and it makes sense too.

I friggin love your houserule, JackVII.

RHat's right about needing to differentiate CQC arms from others. It would be nice gamebalance-wise too, adding some very realistic advantages for shorter weapons (vs everyone carrying Ares Alphas, combat shotguns and sniper rifles bc of the awesome damage).

JackVII

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« Reply #163 on: <02-06-14/1714:14> »
I might suggest amending that to make longer weapons (Assault Rifles, for example) more vulnerable to it than shorter weapons (SMGs, as an example) so that the CQC-centric weapon types actually carry part of their real-world advantage.

I had thought about it but feared getting into a gun-measuring contest. ;) It does make sense though. I guess the easiest way would be to apply it by weapon class and allow specific exceptions (like the short barreled Defiance, possibly).
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RHat

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« Reply #164 on: <02-06-14/1728:49> »
I might suggest amending that to make longer weapons (Assault Rifles, for example) more vulnerable to it than shorter weapons (SMGs, as an example) so that the CQC-centric weapon types actually carry part of their real-world advantage.

I had thought about it but feared getting into a gun-measuring contest. ;) It does make sense though. I guess the easiest way would be to apply it by weapon class and allow specific exceptions (like the short barreled Defiance, possibly).

The other exception would be bullpupped weapons.  Personally, I'd just throw a Reach value on there, use that as the Reach if using a Bayonet on the weapon, and then from there understand that if you're in Reach of your opponent (and for Block/Parry, I'd probably include the defender's Reach in there), it opens up those active defense options along with things like disarms.
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