[Godwyn]

Probably want to cap the Street Cred factor on something like 50% of the remaining multipliers, and reduce it with Notoriety to encourage professionality.

That's a good idea I didn't think of.  That way, the core pay for the job is still based on the primary factors, with a bonus for the Johnson wanting known professionals.  I think I will implement this. 

We considered factoring notoriety, but found it problematic with the variance within the group.  Taking the group average benefits those who have the most, while penalizing those with the least, and going to an individual pay per character varied calculation was more work than I wanted to do.  So they got a pass on it, this time.

[RHat]

We considered factoring notoriety, but found it problematic with the variance within the group.  Taking the group average benefits those who have the most, while penalizing those with the least[...]

And that is why you don't want to work with the notorious guy - he's a problem for the whole team.

[martinchaen]

Here's a link to the House Rules and Interpretations we're gathering for our group. We basically put every contended rule to a vote.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B18kgI86Mqa8WFhIWlB2NEFDVjQ/edit?usp=sharing

[Insaniac99]

Here's a link to the House Rules and Interpretations we're gathering for our group. We basically put every contended rule to a vote.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B18kgI86Mqa8WFhIWlB2NEFDVjQ/edit?usp=sharing

No super squirt, even with the limit of 3 hits?  Any reason why?

[martinchaen]

The general consensus is that the Super Squirt has no place in the game due to the rather ridiculous effects you can rack up. I don't think anyone really intended to ever use it before we included it in the house rules, this just makes it a formal agreement for us.

[Insaniac99]

Fair enough.  I just wondered.  I took one look at it and my first thought was "requires Exotic Weapons, Limited to 3 hits (4 if you are an adept).... I'm not going to hit anything worth hitting with this." and ruled it out as a viable option.

[Bach_The_Fox]

Rule: New interrupt action

"Hit The Deck!"
If a grenade or other explosive device is thrown at you, you can attempt to get to cover. You must have movement left to you for this combat turn, be able to move, and reduce your initiative by -5. If you move in the direction of cover, you may take advantage of that cover (see Destroying Barriers pg 197); otherwise, you simply increase the distance away from the grenade. At the end of this movement, you end up prone. This movement may be increased by the Sprint action if the limit on Sprinting hasn't been reached (see Sprinting, pg 162). Motion Activated Grenades require an opposed defense test, as normal. Resolve this interrupt after the defense test, but before the grenade explodes (if the attacker got net successes, it will explode in the spot you were in, hitting the ground; otherwise it scatters as normal).
Note: the direction of movement is determined before any scatter, so you may inadvertently run in towards an ill-thrown grenade!


Apologies if someone floated this or similar already, didn't do a search.

Thoughts? Any unseen interactions?
I worry it neuters grenades a bit much - I like how deadly they are - but I'm annoyed at the disconnect between being able to 'dodge bullets' but not get out of the way of a much slower moving projectile. This does give a tactical reason to not use all your movement up on your first action, however.

[coyote6]

I was thinking of letting an interrupt action (Dodge or Full Defense) be used against grenades, as a kind of teamwork test for the damage resistance test. So you'd roll the defense, plus Gymnastics or Willpower, -2 dice, and every hit would give you another die to resist the damage.

I was originally thinking about letting the hits equal meters moved, but then I thought that movement as an interrupt might be a bad precedent to set. (Can it be used against area spells? How about against suppressive fire? Or just in general, to get somewhere? Seems like a wormy can.)

[Bach_The_Fox]

Against indirect area spells, no harm in treating it just like the grenades...though that certainly neuters them, as they're not as powerful as a grenade unless thrown at an obscene force.

Against suppressive fire,  I'd say it would be only useful for dropping prone - if they try moving through the suppressed area, they'll risk getting tagged as normal. Make the timing after the defense test (Reaction+Edge if you're in the zone and not in cover) like the motion grenades.

Movement is already a bit wiggy - a high initiative Street Sam could move 30-40 meters on his first action if he so chooses (for you football fans, that's like doing the 40 yard dash in 1 second - probably a 1st round draft pick  ). Giving players a reason to not blow their movement all at once is a net good thing, I believe.

OR, just flat out disallow the interrupt for anything that isn't an actual grenade or other slow moving projectile. It should never get you out of a defense test regardless.


edit: speeling

[KraakenDazs]

Here's a few of mine, critiques welcome.

the reasoning behind these suggestions are:

1. I hate the thought of investing karma in dispellable, or one-shot use items like with the Fixate Metamagic.

2.While i do throw in the occasional overly priced tidbit (limited edition armor jacket, famous painting, etc..) ,  I want awakened characters to have decent, character advancing ways to spend their money instead of better cars and lifestyles, a thing very limited in these karma based characters.

So here are the rules.

Lost, broken, or disjoined Foci. If a character loses an attuned foci, invested xp will be returned to the character on a 1 pt /in-game week basis from the moment he decides the foci is lost to him.

Quickened Spell. Karma lost in a dispelled Quickened spell will also return at the rate of one per week. However, as an added restriction, the quickened spell may not be quickened again until the character has regained ALL of it's invested karma. It may however be sustained or recast normally through other rules (foci, quality, -2 to dice pool etc.).

Alchemy and Fixation metamagic. The character may use 500 nuyen worth of regeants in substitution of 1 karma point for alchemical purposes.(I'm also toying with the idea of allowing a bound spirit of man with the proper spell using spell binding task as an evil alternative.)It's pricy but it makes alchemy a liiiittle more flexible. No more than half the character's magic rating in karma may be substituted by reagants in any one preparation. (So they are more limited than a standard alchemy prep.)

Grimoire spells (New item)
Grimoire spells are extremely detailed spell formulaes that can be followed and used without the need of learning the spell through actual karma expenditure. This comes with a number of restrictions however. First, the spell formulae costs 10 times the price of a regular spell formulae (so 20k for 1 combat spell, 5K for healing, etc.) and requires the magician to hold the item it is inscribed into (a carbed bone prayer or the like for shamans, old vellum books for hermetics) while performing the incantation. They can also be stolen, damaged or lost normally.

[Godwyn]

I can't help but feel those give a bit too much back to the magic users.  The lost foci one seems especially troubling.  What is to stop a mage from abandoning a foci to regain the karma to use to bond a more powerful focus?  If a cyber character wants to upgrade their 'ware, do they get the money refunded from the old ware to buy the new?  I know its not entirely the same, as the focus cost money as well. 

The grimoire spells look interesting, but I think fall into an area SR tries to avoid usually.  They are almost effectively magic items that provide a proscribed effect.  Can anyone use them?  Why not?  Can an adept?  What about an aspected magician using one outside of their aspect?  If only specific awakened, mostly full mages, can use them, that specific group gets a massive boost in utility that circumvents one of the few limiting factors on awakened power, needing to spread karma out to get a lot of things.  For mundanes, one of the few advantages they have is often being able to be a bit "better" in "more" areas, but the awakened can make up for it with unique tricks the mundanes cannot duplicate, if they know the trick.  The grimoire pretty much ensures the awakened can know the trick they need, when they need to.  What do mundanes get to balance it out?

I do like the reagents cost for fixation, though I might  sugget 500 nuyen per day of extension rather than a straight 500, as there is almost no point in spending more than 1 karma anyways, as a single point/500 nuyen extends the duration to days instead.  Spending more karma only gives more dice against disjoining, so the half magic rating is almost irrelevant.  I still see a lot of potential for abuse, as it lets an alchemist prepare very high force spells ahead of time, with no risk of drain during the run.  That is a significant advantage.  At 500 it is perhaps too cheap, but 500 a day per preparation puts a harder limit on it.

I guess my view on giving anything additional to awakened characters is to resist magicrun.  My current group is already at 1 of 6 players being not awakened.  His character is the mundane decker almost entirely for backstory reasons, as the best deckers are also awakened. 

[KraakenDazs]

Hm, ill admit, all valid concerns. I kind of was aiming at a way to make the lesser used magical aspects due the karma cost, more present, and i tend to see karma as a finite ressources, over nuyen which, at some point down the line, becomes plenty availible to smart/efficient runners.

But granted, all my experienced players went for awakened, and the lesser experienced went for 'wares. While it gave me a good split between awakened and non-awakened (2 v2), magic is however especially powerful down the line. Maybe they need to spend the karma and accept the losses in the end.

Still, when it comes down to experienced rpg gamers/rule lawyers, they,ll go leaps and bounds to avoir ''perma xp-loss'', so they'simply wont buy focus, or not delve into alchemy, just on the principle of the thing. The whole point of those rules was to encourage using the other magical aspects of shadowrun, albeit at an high nuyen cost.

thanks for the input!

[NCPtarmigan]

I don't require a cyberdeck to be directly connected to a device to get the direct connection bonuses. As long as a hacker has ownership of a device that is directly connected to the target device, and routes the data through that device, it counts as a direct connect. For example, if someone (like an on-site runner) directly connects a commlink to a maglock, a decker can then wirelessly connect the the commlink and hack the maglock as if he had a direct connection.

Fluff reasoning: The target device doesn't know whether the data is coming directly from a cyberdeck, or from some other device that is routing the cyberdeck's datastream. All the target device knows is that it is getting data over a cable, and that this overrides data coming in wirelessly.

Rules reasoning: First, this allows Technomancers to take advantage of one of the biggest benefits to hacking without getting implants or wearing goofy trodes. Second, it opens up some cool possibilities for "social engineering" type hacks. Tricking someone into plugging in a planted device can get you access to their whole security network. Third, the hacker is still going to have to deal with noise - potentially a lot of noise - by using this option, so it doesn't totally remove hackers from the scene of the crime.

[Godwyn]

New rule I am thinking of proposing to the group.  Cyberware/Bioware adaptation.

Basically pay the cost in difference on a piece of gear, and spend the same amount of surgery and recover time as the original installation, to change the grade of 'ware.  From used to normal, or normal to alpha as an example.  There is no limit to how many times a piece can be improved, but no more than one grade per surgery time.  This can only improve the grade of the 'ware, not change its rating value, orthoskin R2 to R3 is a no.  It just lets 'ware be better adapted to the individual it is installed in.

It has just always puzzled me that there is no way to tweak something once it is installed to better tailor it to the subject.  I figure actual use and observation is one of the best ways to see what isn't adapting perfectly anyways.

[martinchaen]

Good call, Godwyn, I like that one and might steal it for myself

NCPtarmigan; also a good call, thanks for sharing!