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6WE Strength useless for melee users?

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penllawen

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« Reply #75 on: <08-30-19/1634:16> »
A lot of this.  A large part of the advantage, such as it is, in a high strength character getting benefit out of something like a knife is the switch from what may be a higher amount of Stun damage to Physical damage.
Eh. ~10 boxes of Stun or ~10 boxes of Physical, they're down for the count either way, especially with the new rule about damage boxes, PR rating, goons, and Composure tests. If dead matters to you, shoot them in the head later.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #76 on: <08-30-19/1638:08> »
True.  Unnamed Mooks don't even have separate Stun and Physical CMs.

(not that that's new... was the same in 5e as well)
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Finstersang

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« Reply #77 on: <08-30-19/1656:41> »
And Stun tracks tend to be shorter. It´s often better to deal Stun unless you fear that your opposition will get away and have time to patch up.

Ghost Rigger

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« Reply #78 on: <08-30-19/1824:33> »
Troll going berserk dealing physical damage and punching through brick walls with his bare fists is also rather iconic. Hulk also don't use a tiny katana. He just smash things with his fists.
So you've never read World War Hulk or watched Thor: Ragnarok. For that matter you haven't seen any media where the Hulk picks up a large heavy object (such as a car, a rock, a tree or a telephone pole) and smashes his opponent with it, which means you've seen somewhere between very little and no Hulk media at all.......I think we can safely ignore your opinion on what is and what isn't iconic.

Let's not kid ourselves. Trolls wrecking house with large melee weapons is just as iconic as trolls wrecking house with their bare fists.
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Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #79 on: <08-30-19/1840:38> »
I’d say a troll with a wallacher combat axe is more iconic than brawler troll in shadowrun. Even if one of my favorite characters I’ve made was Yos the troll boxer. Alas drones with assault cannons at long range don’t mesh well with a melee combatant.

Xenon

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« Reply #80 on: <08-30-19/1913:41> »
Troll going berserk dealing physical damage and punching through brick walls with his bare fists is also rather iconic. Hulk also don't use a tiny katana. He just smash things with his fists.
So you've never read World War Hulk or watched Thor: Ragnarok. For that matter you haven't seen any media where the Hulk picks up a large heavy object (such as a car, a rock, a tree or a telephone pole) and smashes his opponent with it, which means you've seen somewhere between very little and no Hulk media at all.......I think we can safely ignore your opinion on what is and what isn't iconic.

Let's not kid ourselves. Trolls wrecking house with large melee weapons is just as iconic as trolls wrecking house with their bare fists.
The weapons that people argue about in this thread are small knives.

Don't think anyone have issues with a 13 strength troll dealing 7P damage by hitting people with a small car or 7P by punching through people with his bare fists.... Same skill. Same damage. Probably similar attack rating as well.

Ghost Rigger

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« Reply #81 on: <08-30-19/2132:56> »
The weapons that people argue about in this thread are small knives.
Well too bad that it the rules affect every single melee weapon possible instead of "uniconic" weapons. FFS, can't we forget this "iconic" discussion and get back into the realm of basic sense where stronger guys hit harder?
After all you don't send an electrician to fix your leaking toilet.

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Xenon

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« Reply #82 on: <08-30-19/2150:30> »
But if we go back to that route than melee weapons will eventually become pointless unless you have a an augmented strength attribute of 8+ or so

I really like that a lot of people are using katanas again, even if they only have an augmented strength rating of 3-4 or so. Think ninjas.

If you go heavy strength then you instead focus on unarmed (and possible heavy troll bows) which will do massive damage. Think hulk.

But if we were to complicate the rules then I guess it would make more sense if blunt weapons ("clubs") should be made strength based (either if strength directly affect damage or that strength influence how much damage they do by being part of the attack pool) but perhaps keep "blades" (and "whips") mostly agility based (fixed damage based where hits are generated from agility and skill, as-is).

Mustakrakish

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« Reply #83 on: <09-10-19/0112:32> »
I think that the best solution is to just allow players to use their STR on Melee rolls if their STR is higher than their AGI.

Or, get a bonus +1 damage if their STR is twice the DV of the weapon.

Hephaestus

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« Reply #84 on: <09-10-19/1250:27> »
Or just add STR back into the damage code at 0.5x on top of DV.

Going with the troll example: A troll that can put their fist through your skull and touch the wall behind you should be just as able to pin your skull to said wall with a knife, or a pen, or a fragging spoon.

This argument has been going on since the QSR came out, and it's just going in circles. The rub is in 6th edition, high STR characters have been pigeonholed into unarmed combat to be able to use their strength. This is restrictive to builds, and not very much fun. The flip side is that with the reduced damage values, allowing full STR back into the damage values makes high-STR characters potentially 19 DV melee gods.

So go down the middle at STRx0.5 and let players strength matter.

Kirklins

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« Reply #85 on: <09-10-19/1321:41> »
The compromise I think I'd do is existing dv or 1/2 str, whichever is greater. Just adding str (or half) makes all melee a bit too high a dv, I think.
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Mustakrakish

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« Reply #86 on: <09-10-19/1418:27> »
The compromise I think I'd do is existing dv or 1/2 str, whichever is greater. Just adding str (or half) makes all melee a bit too high a dv, I think.

But then all weapons do the same damage if you have STR 12 for example. And I think that a two handed axe is much more deadly with such STR than a knife.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #87 on: <09-10-19/1439:46> »
Well, speaking as a Devil's Advocate here...

Is a big scary Troll really going to do MORE damage with a knife than by making full and horrific use of his dermal deposits and bone lacing?

Even if the knife gives +1DV, +2DV from your augmentations is still the no brainer option...

And as a related thought:
Remember that scene in Deadpool 2 where Juggernaut rips DP in half with his bare hands?  You think he would have done MORE damage by stabbing him?
« Last Edit: <09-10-19/1442:04> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Mustakrakish

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« Reply #88 on: <09-10-19/1448:48> »
Well, speaking as a Devil's Advocate here...

Is a big scary Troll really going to do MORE damage with a knife than by making full and horrific use of his dermal deposits and bone lacing?

Even if the knife gives +1DV, +2DV from your augmentations is still the no brainer option...

And as a related thought:
Remember that scene in Deadpool 2 where Juggernaut rips DP in half with his bare hands?  You think he would have done MORE damage by stabbing him?

True, but if a little boy will hit you on the head with a frying pan it won't heart or be as lethal as a fully augmented troll.

It's like those Strongest Man attractions when you strike with the hammer on a button and try to ring the bell at the top. You hit with the hammer and it measures how hard you hit, no matter how skilled the person is or how agile he is, it won't help him ring that bell.

Ghost Rigger

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« Reply #89 on: <09-10-19/1450:10> »
No one is talking about a troll with a knife. It's always a troll with a combat axe or a sledgehammer.
After all you don't send an electrician to fix your leaking toilet.

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