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6e Play/Stress Test

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Lormyr

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« Reply #90 on: <09-04-19/0959:57> »
I thought it was 3 hits.  AFB so I can't confirm but I thought the wording on Increased Reflexes was something along the lines of "...+1 Drain for each hit after the first."   First hit was 5 Drain, second hit 6, Third hit was the magic 7.  Am I remembering the details wrong?

You have the formula right, but focused concentration cannot sustain spells with modified drain of 7 or higher, so only 6 and lower.
"TL:DR 6e's reduction of meaningful choices is akin to forcing everyone to wear training wheels. Now it's just becomes a bunch of toddlers riding around on tricycles they can't fall off of." - Adzling

Hobbes

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« Reply #91 on: <09-04-19/1002:37> »
Right, thanks!

Iron Serpent Prince

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« Reply #92 on: <09-04-19/1451:39> »
Part 2, which is all I will have time to finish today. The last part should be ready in a day or two.

I'm looking forward to it.

I'd also like to know your players feelings on the system, if you weren't planning on including that.  I'm not asking for them to sign up to the forums, or any lengthy disposition.  A summary will do.  I'm wondering if they walked away with the same feelings as my group.

Lormyr

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« Reply #93 on: <09-04-19/1509:39> »
Part 2, which is all I will have time to finish today. The last part should be ready in a day or two.

I'm looking forward to it.

I'd also like to know your players feelings on the system, if you weren't planning on including that.  I'm not asking for them to sign up to the forums, or any lengthy disposition.  A summary will do.  I'm wondering if they walked away with the same feelings as my group.

We discussed that, and I'll be adding those once I finish up the recap.
"TL:DR 6e's reduction of meaningful choices is akin to forcing everyone to wear training wheels. Now it's just becomes a bunch of toddlers riding around on tricycles they can't fall off of." - Adzling

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« Reply #94 on: <09-04-19/1510:54> »
Ought assensing be proscriptive?

Lormyr

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« Reply #95 on: <09-05-19/1415:07> »
Third and final part. My thoughts and player thoughts to follow once I get those typed up.

Scene 9: Adapt and destroy

Having now been able to witness through the surveillance system Collateral's love of explosives and Revenant dodge a hail of gunfire that should have felled a tank before Lockdown took out cameras, the security spider alerts all remaining personnel not to target the skinny troll with weapon attacks and to prioritize killing the human wearing the bandolier of grenades above all other targets.

Up to this point I've had the security spider do another matrix perception test every minute in effort to spot Lockdown running silent to begin messing with the team's gear, but my dice just haven't been having it. I haven't rolled more than 3 hits on 11 dice and Lockdown hasn't rolled less than 3 on 13.

Meanwhile, the team takes the stairs briskly in a downward spiral, several hundred feet with with no opportunities for exit until they reach the bottom. The composition of the descent's architecture slowly changes from modern building to facsimile of an ancient Mayan stone temple, and the team finds themselves standing in front of a large reinforced stone door decorated with murals and hieroglyphics. It would appear that some technology has been infused with the design, as a biometric scanner for hand and eye appears to be the only means of opening the door. The door is thick reinforced stone (structure rating 19), and Cage tells the group he doesn't care for the idea of shredding the skin off of his knuckles punching the door for 8 minutes. Collateral nods, tells everyone to get back up the stairs a good 30 meters, sets two of his fragmentation grenades to wireless trigger, backs up the stairs with the team, and detonates them creating a 1 meter hole in the door [Collateral wanted to play with the making a bigger boom Engineering rules, but quickly realized there was no way for him to get away with less than 2 grenades here, so didn't bother].

As the cloud of dust and shrapnel settles, the team comes back down the stairs, ducking and entering through the 3 meter hole into the temple. The smell of blood and more murals and hieroglyphics on the stone walls greet them, as do five patients from the ward above chained to the walls. Wailing fearfully and casting fevered warnings at the team, they swiftly set to freeing the patients who flee up the stairs, but are set upon by five human men dressed in ancient mayan warrior garb, complete with painted faces, and wielding macuahuitls. I used the following stat block, largely adapted from the Marine Corps Special Operations Forces template, pg. 208.:

Leopard Guard Adepts, Professional Rating 8
Attributes: B 6, A 6 (9), R 5 (8), S 5, W 6, L 3, I 4, C 4; M 8
   DR 9, I 4d6+12, CM 11
Skills: Astral 4, Athletics 8, Close Combat 8 (10; axes +2), Outdoors 4, Perception 8, Stealth 7
Adept Powers (10 PP): Combat Sense 4, Improved Ability (Close Combat) 2, Improved Physical Attribute (Agility) 3, Improved Reflexes 3
Initiate Level: 2
Gear: Ceremonial bone and wood armor (as armor vest +3), commlink (device rating 6)
Weapons:
Macuahuitl (combat axe) rating 1 weapon foci [Axe, DV 5P, 9/-/-/-/-]

We roll Initiative, and have the following order: LG Adepts (40 on 4d6+12, plus 12 from 4 edge), Collateral (35 on 5d6+15), Revenant (31 on 3d6+18), Cage (30 on 4d6+13), Sovereign's air spirit (26 on 2d6+16), Revenant's water spirit (24 on 2d6+14), Sovereign (22 on 3d6+12), Lockdown (21 on 3d6+9).

Wanting to make sure these guys get a chance to act before being slaughtered by grenades, I spend 1/2 their group edge for an Initiative boost. It works. Heeding the warning from the security spider, the grunts group charge down Collateral before he gets a chance to act. Macuahuitl's already readied, they spend a major action to sprint towards Collateral, as they have 16 meters of distance to cross to get to him and a minor move action will not suffice. Seeing what's coming down the pipe for his small friend, Cage spends a minor action for Intercept, and a major action to attack one of the grunts as they pass him on their way to Collateral. Cage goes for a grapple to ensure the adept doesn't make it to attack the much frailer human, automatically generating 2 edge for his attack (one for the double-joined quality, and a second for AR 21 vs. DR 9, lol). Cage palms the humans face, lifting his entire body off of the ground and squeezing his skull like an cantaloupe, and the adept is grappled and takes 7P damage [7 hits on 18 dice for close combat vs. 6 hits on 16 dice for defense; then 6 hits on 15 dice for strength (+2 for carry over hits instead of extra damage for grappling) vs. 3 hits on 5 dice for strength; finally 3 hits on 6 dice for soak vs. 10P]. The remaining 4 grunts exchange 4 of their 5 minor actions to take a second major action to attack Collateral, neither side gaining edge (AR 12 vs. DR 12). Collateral pre-edges his defense test and spends a minor action for dodge, causing the adepts to miss [10 hits on 23 dice vs. 12 hits on 27 pre-edged dice], taking 3P damage [2 hits on 5 dice soak vs. 5P].

Collateral delays.

Revenant delays.

Cage exchanges his 4 remaining minor actions for a second major to damage opponent in a grapple. He gains no edge, having already maxed out for the turn on his first action, but crushes the adept's skull into a chunky mess, killing him. [9 hits on 23 dice (close combat + strength rather than agility vs. opponent you have already grappled vs. 4 hits on 13 dice (strength + reaction + adept combat sense - 4 for the grappled opponent...; 2 hits on 6 dice for soak vs. 15P].

Sovereign's air spirit uses a minor action to move 10 meters from one of the adepts on Collateral, and a major action for elemental attack. The spirit misses [5 hits on 15 dice for attack. vs 6 hits on 16 dice for defense].

Revenant's water spirit does the exact same, also missing [4 hits on 13 dice for attack vs. 7 hits on 16 dice for defense].

Sovereign uses a minor action to moves 10 meters away from the adepts, and a major action to cast control thoughts on one of the adepts. He goes for broke, attempting to make the adept turn on his allies (for which I award him 1 edge, but he cannot make use of it at present), but still manages to succeed [6 hits on 14 dice for spellcasting vs. 2 hits and 3 hits on 9 dice for two WIL + LOG resistance tests for the thought being too far outside the norm]. He buys his 4 drain.

Lockdown uses a minor action to move 10 meters away from the adepts, and a major action to open up on one of them with burst fire. Neither side gains edge (AR 9 vs. DR 9), and Lockdown hits for 6P [6 hits on 17 dice for attack vs. 5 hits on 16 dice for defense; 2 hits on 6 dice for soak vs. 8P].

Collateral undelays, using a minor action to move 10 meters away from the adepts, and a major action for, you guessed it, a grenade on the perfectly clustered mass. Neither side gains edge [AR 9 vs. DR 9], and Collateral obviously hits and obliterates the four remaining (whom have no remaining actions to even hit the dirt with). [6 hits on 20 dice for throwing, 8 on 2d6 for scatter +2 which is just enough for on target; none of them roll the 5 hits needed on 6 dice for soak to survive the 16P].

Cage also has no remaining actions to help mitigate the incoming close range 8P, so spends 4 edge to pre-edge his soak roll, taking only 1P [7 hits on 16 pre-edged dice for soak]. The remainder of Collateral, Lockdown, Revenant, Sovereign, and both friendly spirits all hit the dirt for 6P. Collateral takes 3P [3 hits on 5 dice for soak], Lockdown takes 2P [4 hits on 10 dice for soak], Revenant takes 2P [4 hits on 13 dice for soak], Sovereign takes 4P [2 hits on 5 dice for soak], and neither spirit takes damage due to immunity to normal weapons.

Dusting themselves off while Collateral apologizes profusely, Revenant and Sovereign begin healing up the shrapnel damage on the team. Cage is healed for 1 after essence sink soaking hits, Collateral is healed for 1 after essence sink soaking hits, Lockdown for 2 after essence sink soaking hits, and Revenant and Sovereign fully healed. All drain is successfully bought. This leaves Cage and Collateral with 2P damage, and Lockdown with 1P to this point.

Scene 10: Raise your hand if you are a filthy blood mage

As the team delves further into the temple they come across thick stone reinforced blast doors, sealed with wards, with murals of nightmare creatures and mayan hieroglyphics labeling them. The feelings of loss and dread begins to become palpable for the team, who resolve to leave those doors alone unless absolutely necessary. At the end of the corridor, a final ward bars progress down the hallway, at the end of which they see flickering torchlight and hear a single voice chanting. A quick assensing roll from Sovereign informs him that the ward's magic is equal to his own. Cage, Collateral, and Lockdown all cross the ward with ease. With a shrug, Revenant and Sovereign each instruct one of their spirits to bring the barrier down, which they easily accomplish, after which they hurry through before it reforms. The moment the barrier collapses, the chanting down the hall stops, and the team prepares to face the blood mage beyond.

As the hall comes to end in a circular 8 meter room, the torchlight grows from flickering to illuminating. A pillar of skulls with hieroglyphics etched in them, stained with dried blood, stands towards the back of the room. In front of it is a man in a white physician's coat, wearing an elaborate ceremonial mask of beads, bones, feathers, stones, and blood. The team has a brief exchange with him, in which it becomes it is Dr. Ruiz, and he has lost his mind and turned himself over to "the old masters from the dark realms". This place is monument to their inevitability, and he works to hasten their arrival so that all may feel the certainty and comfort of their oblivion. The team's heard enough. Dr. Ruiz has the following stats:

Dr. Lorenzo Ruiz, Pawn of Horrors
Attributes: B 6 (10), A 3, R 5 (9), S 3, W 6 (10), L 6 (10), I 6 (10), C 4 (8); M 9, E 5
   DR 14, I 5d6+19, CM 13/13
Skills: Astral 7, Athletics 4, Biotech 6, Close Combat 3, Con 6, Conjuring 8 (water [blood] +2), Firearms 3, Influence 7 (Intimidation +2), Perception 7, Spellcasting 9 (combat +3, illusion +2), Stealth 6
Spells: Blast, Clout, Combat Sense, Confusion, Heal, Increase Attributes, Increase Reflexes, Manaball, Manabolt, Shape Stone, Stunball, Stunbolt
Initiate Level: 5
Metamagics: Centering, flexible signature, masking, quickening, shielding
Gear: Centering foci (rating 4; ancient mayan mask), commlink (device rating 6)
Weapons:
Ritual knife rating 1 weapon foci [Combat Knife, DV 3P, 8/2/-/-/-]

A few dice rolls later says we go in this order: Dr. Ruiz (39 on 5d6+19), Collateral (39 on 5d6+15 plus 3 from 1 edge), Cage (37 on 4d6+13 plus 6 from 2 edge), Revenant (30 on 3d6+18), Dr. Ruiz's force 8 blood spirit (24 on 2d6 +18), Sovereign's air spirit (22 on 2d6+16), Sovereign (22 on 3d6+12), Revenant's water spirit (20 on 2d6+14), Lockdown (19 on 3d6+9).

Dr. Ruiz opens with a major action to cast confusion, turning it into an area of effect spell with a 12 meter radius for +6 drain (the rest of the team is 10 meters behind Cage and Revenant]. Both Revenant and Sovereign take a counterspell major action for boosted defense in response. Sovereign uses 12 reagents to increase the radius of the effect to 12 meters. Revenant's 2 meter radius defense boot provides 4 defense dice against spells [4 hits on 12 dice] and Sovereign's 12 meter radius defense boost provides 5 dice against spells [5 hits on 12 dice]. Dr. Ruiz spell succeeds [8 hits on 20 dice for spellcasting], and his 29 drain dice easily buy the 6 drain. Cage, who benefits from both boosted defense's radius, is effected, gaining the Confused (3) status [5 hits on 15 dice vs. 8 hits]. Revenant, whom also benefits from both, is uneffected [8 hits on 20 dice vs. 8 hits]. Collateral is effected, gaining the Confused (4) status [4 hits on 14 dice vs. 8 hits]. Lockdown is uneffected [8 hits on 21 dice vs. 8 hits], and Sovereign gets obliterated, gaining the Confused (6) status [2!? hits on 16 dice].

Dr. Ruiz spends a second major action for full defense, and his final minor action to move 10 meters beside the trolls.

Cage takes the opportunity to spend a minor action for intercept and a major action to attempt to grapple Ruiz. Cage gains 2 edge (double-jointed and AR 21 vs. DR 14), but misses [5 hits on 15 dice for grapple vs. 8 hits on 29 dice for defense].

Collateral spends a minor action to move 10 meters further away from the trolls and ruiz, yells "I love you guys and I'm sorry but this needs to happen!", and throws a grenade as a major action. Cage spends a minor action to avoid incoming, making it 3 meters away from the ground zero explosion into close range and falling prone [3 hits on 9 dice after confusion and ground zero dodge penalty]. Reveant knows he has no prayer of avoiding incoming, and just spends a minor to hit the dirt. Lockdown, Sovereign, and the team's spirit all hit the dirt with minor actions. Revenant and Ruiz gain edge from the attack (AR 10 vs. DR 14 and 18], Collateral makes his attack roll, his grenade hitting Ruiz in the face before detonating [5 hits on 16 dice for throwing after confusion, 7 scatter on 2d6 + 2 near range bonus = direct hit]. Ruiz takes 9P [7 hits on 15 pre-edged soak dice. vs. 16P], Cage takes 5P [5 hits on 12 dice for soak], Revenant takes 9P [5 hits on 13 dice for soak], Lockdown takes 2P [4 hits on 10 dice for soak vs. 6P], Sovereign takes 3P [3 hits on 5 dice for soak vs. 6P], and all three of the spirits are immune to the 6P because grenades aren't magical.

He then spends a second major action to continue singing the song of his people, this time putting the grenade 2 meters behind Ruiz, reasoning that should finish him off and spare Cage and Revenant some damage. Revenant and Ruiz both gain another point of edge. Cage never misses [5 hits on 16 dice for throwing with confused status, 6 on 2d6 scatter +2 near range bonus = lol autowin]. Ruiz explodes in a shower of gore, taking another 8P [4 hits on 10 dice for soak vs. 12P]. Revenant faces down another 10P, taking 4 of it [6 hits on 13 dice after edge turning a 4 into a 5 vs. 10P]. Cage takes no damage [6 hits on 12 dice for soak vs. 6P], Lockdown takes 3P [3 hits on 10 dice for soak vs. 6P], Sovereign takes 4P [2 hits on 5 dice for soak vs. 6P], and the three spirits again unharmed.

The blood spirit vanishing with it's summoner's demise, the team spends a minute healing up, nowhere near to full this time (the rolls don't matter, the fighting is over). After spending a bit more time ransacking Ruiz's lab, they find his journal and Lockdown downloads his data from his commlink, clearly implicating him in Nora's death, and far, far worse.

The team returns to a grateful Jonathan, gets paid, and got their first glimpse at world's old threat, neither gone nor forgotten.
"TL:DR 6e's reduction of meaningful choices is akin to forcing everyone to wear training wheels. Now it's just becomes a bunch of toddlers riding around on tricycles they can't fall off of." - Adzling

Lormyr

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« Reply #96 on: <09-05-19/1439:49> »
To now answer Hobbes, did we have fun? Of course. In no particular order, our various thoughts after a long session:

(All of us): Is 6e playable? Yes. Was it fun? Yes. Could it have been done better? Yes. 5e or 6e? For missions, which is the bulk of our play, whatever is current. For home, definitely 5e.

(All of us): Spirits are really terrible in terms of game balance. Considering from the perspective of at magic rating summoning, soaking the drain is a trivial joke, but successfully getting net hits for services is really tough. None of us felt that the force 6 spirits were particularly good for offense vs. PC offense, but in terms of being a damage sponge for the group, they are second to none.

(All of us): Ware-based characters come out of the door really, really good compared to 5e, as well as very good for 6e comparison to other options. Considering they do not have the growth potential of adepts, we consider this a good thing.

(All of us): Healing low essence characters is a nightmare though. Sure, it was tougher in 5e as well, but in 5e it cost you dice off of your roll instead of hits directly which is an enormous difference. Because of this we pretty much all agreed that if you are rocking less than 14 defense dice and 10 soak on a ware based character you are probably better off being an adept in terms of raw survivability over multiple encounters.

(All of us): Fuck explosives. Seriously, what in the hell were you guys thinking?

Please
Give
Them
A
Defense
Test
For
Fuck's
Sake

There is no reason for a combat mage to exist anymore, just throw a grenade. Even just using the lowest possible damage and radius of 6P to everyone within 20 meters, an equivalent spell would have to come from a Magic rating 12 mage who increased by area of effect by 18 meters for +9 drain.

(All of us): Impaired attribute is too good and needs reworked.

(All of us): A lot of the qualities on both sides are kind of boring, and/or not worth the points. They all made their characters separately, and all picked almost exactly the same stuff.

(Cage): Grappling was extremely effective, and extremely fun. It locks your opponent's movement down, and provides a superior damage formula (close combat + strength instead of close combat + agility). He wouldn't want to run the build on anything but a dwarf or troll though, and he felt like he wasted an awful lot of edge because after just one attack him from any other gain opportunity was wasted resources.

(Collateral): The only reason his build was effective was because of a grossly overpowered and undercosted item. He said if he had resorted to throwing stars at any point in time he would have felt useless. He also loved that Stealth is also usable to disguising now, which added a whole new element to his character that he didn't anticipate.

(Lockdown): Appreciates how much simpler the matrix is to use this time around. Being he was only 4 dice off of his maximum non-magically assisted ability to run silent, he feels that the host IC dice pools are a bit too high once you get into higher end hosts. He thought rating x1.5 would be better than rating x2.

(Revenant): Is sour that there is no option to come out of chargen with additional magical resources.

"TL:DR 6e's reduction of meaningful choices is akin to forcing everyone to wear training wheels. Now it's just becomes a bunch of toddlers riding around on tricycles they can't fall off of." - Adzling

Hobbes

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« Reply #97 on: <09-05-19/1517:07> »
Glad y'all had fun!   :D

Iron Serpent Prince

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« Reply #98 on: <09-05-19/1528:05> »
In no particular order, our various thoughts after a long session:

Good stuff, clipped only for brevity

For an apples to oranges comparison, my group hated the Edge system.

No, wait.  That isn't fair.  They absolutely despised the Edge system. [2]

They found it too gamey, too finickey, and worst of all - too integrated [1], which over all made it too much of a pain in the ass.

[1] Unfortunately, just about everything revolves around Edge in 6th, so you can't just remove it and have a half way working system.

[2] My group plays via VTT (Virtual Table Top), and unlike Star Trek Adventures Momentum and Threat, there isn't only two pools that only one person had to have access to (in Roll20, you can use a single token and modify two of the stat bars [Blue for Momentum, Red for Threat - as an example].  In Shadowrun Sixth World, every. Single. Important. Character. Plus. Every. Group.  Needs there own Edge pool to track.  On top of that, it isn't just part of the system, as in ST:A above [3], it is a meta-currency to be gained as often as possible and spent just as quick.  Without it, there is no reason to even spend money on 6th.

[3]  Sure, Momentum can be gamed in ST:A.  The whole rule system isn't built around it, however, so gaming Momentum is only so useful.


It is as if the designers didn't even give VTT gameplay any lip service as they built up the NuEdge steaming pile of dogdrek.  :( 

Lormyr, I'm going to make an assumption that y'all played face-to-face?
« Last Edit: <09-05-19/1530:42> by Iron Serpent Prince »

penllawen

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« Reply #99 on: <09-05-19/1534:00> »
Lormyr: thanks for the detailed writeup, this is really good stuff.

(All of us): A lot of the qualities on both sides are kind of boring, and/or not worth the points. They all made their characters separately, and all picked almost exactly the same stuff.
One of players, who has read 6e, is of the opinion that the qualities are boring/samey because many of them just change Edge generation. Was that your group's complaint, or was it something else?

Quote
he felt like he wasted an awful lot of edge because after just one attack him from any other gain opportunity was wasted resources.
How did the rest of the table feel about Edge capping in general? It's a sort point with my table.

Quote
(Lockdown): Appreciates how much simpler the matrix is to use this time around. Being he was only 4 dice off of his maximum non-magically assisted ability to run silent, he feels that the host IC dice pools are a bit too high once you get into higher end hosts. He thought rating x1.5 would be better than rating x2.
I am working on backporting the 6e Matrix to 5e, so this is good to hear.

Lormyr

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« Reply #100 on: <09-05-19/1543:57> »
Glad y'all had fun!   :D

We've been gaming together over 10 years, so hard not to.

Iron Serpent Prince, I mostly agree with you. We never really cared much for the pre/post mechanic of edge in 5e because it felt too powerful, so in a sense I am glad to at least see that harder to do in 6e.

Because most of my NPCs got detonated by grenades before getting to do much, I didn't get to play with the edge actions much, but few of them would have been worth using due to the specific NPCs and PC builds I had to work with.

My main gripe with the new edge system is that it is I find it to be unnecessary clutter, that primarily allows options and strategies to function with expenditure that should just function on their own.

I did forget one thing though, which is I feel a love/hate relationship with grunt groups. I love their ease, and I hate how they work with edge. A good example is when the adept group attacked Collateral. He only needed 1 pre-edge and 1 minor action to avoid the group entirely, where as if the 4 would have attacked individually there is a much better chance he would have been hit a few times because he couldn't have done both of those things against every attacker. On the fence on groups for now.

One of players, who has read 6e, is of the opinion that the qualities are boring/samey because many of them just change Edge generation. Was that your group's complaint, or was it something else?

In a nutshell, yes, along with the pricing for them being seeming illogical for what you get when compared to one another.

How did the rest of the table feel about Edge capping in general? It's a sort point with my table.

None of us hated the edge system, but we all shared a mild distaste for it - think of how you regard the times you wake up in the morning really thirsty, with that sticky white garbage on the corner of your mouth? Like that.
"TL:DR 6e's reduction of meaningful choices is akin to forcing everyone to wear training wheels. Now it's just becomes a bunch of toddlers riding around on tricycles they can't fall off of." - Adzling

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #101 on: <09-05-19/1601:56> »
You could have thrown cheese back to the cheesemeister by having an NPC spend 5 edge "for a special effect": catch the grenade and throw it back to Collateral.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Lormyr

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« Reply #102 on: <09-05-19/1640:11> »
You could have thrown cheese back to the cheesemeister by having an NPC spend 5 edge "for a special effect": catch the grenade and throw it back to Collateral.

With the grenades set to detonate on impact that isn't a realistic option imo. I understand that is sort of the purpose of that application of the 5 edge, but I was not prepared to allow that permit an non-mechanic game mechanic (this does whatever you want so long as the GM says so) to defeat a hard rule of "this detonates on impact".

Besides, it wasn't necessary. If NPCs armed with grenades ever get to act first, and use those grenades, it is not possible for PCs to survive at any point in their karma career.
"TL:DR 6e's reduction of meaningful choices is akin to forcing everyone to wear training wheels. Now it's just becomes a bunch of toddlers riding around on tricycles they can't fall off of." - Adzling

Hobbes

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« Reply #103 on: <09-05-19/1706:42> »

Besides, it wasn't necessary. If NPCs armed with grenades ever get to act first, and use those grenades, it is not possible for PCs to survive at any point in their karma career.

Rocks Fall.  Everyone Dies.   :P

Tecumseh

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« Reply #104 on: <09-06-19/1229:04> »
Lormyr, thanks for taking the time to do such detailed write-ups. Also, thanks for the thoughts and reviews.

I had the same thoughts about Qualities. Grappling too.

Your PCs are (in my opinion) highly optimized. In your experience, does that put more stress on 6E's rules than it does to 5E's?