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Are we EVER getting clarifications and fixes?

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Moonrunner

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« on: <11-06-19/1638:35> »
Ok, this is has now BEYOND the realm of the obscene and ridiculous.  This book as been out since last GenCon and still to this day we haven't received official clarifications and rulings for all the broken, omitted or conflicting things in the book.  This is unacceptable.  Are we EVER getting these?

My 6e group has stopped playing and started Call of Cthulhu instead until we can figure out what is going to happen with 6e but are considering playing a whole different cyberpunk RPG now like the Android setting or maybe the new Cyberpunk.

FastJack

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« Reply #1 on: <11-06-19/1652:20> »
I know we're all used to immediate updates and such, but print still takes time. It takes time to gather the issues, triage the importance of the issues, write up answers/solutions, and get it ready for publication (not to mention editing the main product with the updates). Three months is NOT extreme at all.

adzling

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« Reply #2 on: <11-06-19/1710:09> »
Fastjack's correct.

Also I gather from your comment moonrunner that you don't really know much about Catalyst, this is how they operate.

I was on the 5e errata team and had the "joy" of having my work ignored and left unreviewed by the line editor who from what i could see could care less about errata or "getting things right" or anything approaching a healthy relationship with customers.

ymmv, i hope it does!

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #3 on: <11-06-19/1723:56> »
The primary broken things were covered by the hotfix errata. Normal errata take more time, especially if they want to let an Editor go through them. I'd like info on the progress, but I don't consider it really slow just yet.
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Noble Drake

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« Reply #4 on: <11-07-19/1623:39> »
I continue to be confused as to how people get this idea in their head that any table-top RPG ever has released without significant errors or unclear portions of text in important parts of the game, or been successfully an completely patched in 3 months, and then get "I'm gonna quit the whole dang game!" levels of upset about a game that - like all the others ever - doesn't hit that mark.

markelphoenix

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« Reply #5 on: <11-07-19/2039:45> »
I continue to be confused as to how people get this idea in their head that any table-top RPG ever has released without significant errors or unclear portions of text in important parts of the game, or been successfully an completely patched in 3 months, and then get "I'm gonna quit the whole dang game!" levels of upset about a game that - like all the others ever - doesn't hit that mark.

Pathfinder 2.0 and D&D 5E would like to have a chat with this comment.

Shadowjack

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« Reply #6 on: <11-07-19/2058:10> »
6E is very good imo but there are some flaws that make me question the quality of the playtesting. I don't mean to offend anyone but I find it quite odd that some of the issues with the game actually made it in. The editing has a lot of problems, I don't see why the editor doesn't get fired. He is even listed as "lead troubleshooter" instead of editor, just because his reputation is so bad. Back when Jason Hardy did a lot of the editing the books had far less problems, that was back in 4E. Ever since 5E the editing has been awful. I find 6E very playable but some things can be tough to find, like the rules for how many damage boxes a vehicle gets being tucked away in a section titled shooting from a vehicle. Other times the rules for a certain mechanic are in a few different places in the book and you need to page-flip a lot.

As for errata, the hotfix is a good start and I'm sure the next batch will help a ton. I think its normal for books to have issues but Shadowrun tends to have a lot of them, especially very serious ones that make it hard for new players to play properly, while vets may be able to house rule. Even then, house rules feel bad to me. Pathfinder 2E may have more employees but the book is very well written and almost everything is easily understandable and playable right out of the gate. It has errata but the bulk of it is small stuff. You can only use CGL having a small team as an excuse so much, people want higher quality.

The book is beautiful, the writing is excellent, the artwork is okay but has some awesome stuff too. Fantastic cover, decently well-organized book (most things are easy to find), the game overall plays very well, I'm really happy with it and having a blast. But others are not as tolerant and competition is popping up on a seemingly monthly basis. I'd love to be able to buy the books and not feel like I'll need to buy them again later just for them to work properly with errata.
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mbisber

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« Reply #7 on: <11-07-19/2122:31> »
The primary broken things were covered by the hotfix errata.
For those of us who just got the core book recently, and haven't had the Willpower to sift through it yet, where might the hotfix errata be found? Thanks.

FastJack

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« Reply #8 on: <11-07-19/2144:46> »
I continue to be confused as to how people get this idea in their head that any table-top RPG ever has released without significant errors or unclear portions of text in important parts of the game, or been successfully an completely patched in 3 months, and then get "I'm gonna quit the whole dang game!" levels of upset about a game that - like all the others ever - doesn't hit that mark.

Pathfinder 2.0 and D&D 5E would like to have a chat with this comment.
I do have to totally agree with you on this, especially since Paizo just released a playtest for the Advanced Players Guide for 2E detailing the Investigator, Oracle, Swashbuckler, and (my personal favorite) Witch classes. The changes for Witch especially made me giddy. Yes, you can now imagine a curmudgeonly old decker giddy. Your welcome.

Leith

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« Reply #9 on: <11-07-19/2205:34> »
I continue to be confused as to how people get this idea in their head that any table-top RPG ever has released without significant errors or unclear portions of text in important parts of the game, or been successfully an completely patched in 3 months, and then get "I'm gonna quit the whole dang game!" levels of upset about a game that - like all the others ever - doesn't hit that mark.

Pathfinder 2.0 and D&D 5E would like to have a chat with this comment.

Actually D&D 5e had several flaws, some of which have never really been addressed.  They don't really need to be fixed because D&D 5e was designed with a very loose ruleset where the DM has a lot of judgment calls. Something which SR 6 has been criticized for.

Bishophawk

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« Reply #10 on: <11-07-19/2229:30> »
And Pathfinder 2.0 just released a hot fix errta the other day with more on the way.

Shadowjack

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« Reply #11 on: <11-07-19/2237:44> »
Pathfinder 2E is a much larger book and after reading the majority of it I had almost no confusion on any of the rules. There were some small things but nothing serious. 6E even has entries for Agents in the gear section and they don't even exist. That's absolutely terrible.
« Last Edit: <11-07-19/2239:20> by Shadowjack »
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Noble Drake

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« Reply #12 on: <11-08-19/0044:00> »
Pathfinder 2.0 and D&D 5E would like to have a chat with this comment.
As others have already pointed out, neither of those games came out without anything fix-worthy, and neither patched up everything fix-worthy about them in 3 months.

What is different about them is kind of simple though: the flaws that are present just so happen not to be in areas that a particular reader gets caught on. The same applies for SR6 though, just for different people. A number of the things people have brought up claims of being entirely non-functional in SR6 I didn't notice on my own read-through because they are things that have historically not come up in my Shadowrun play so I'm not "missing" anything if they don't function (like agents, or how shotguns don't seem up-to-snuff), or I felt I understood upon reading even though the text was unclear to people with complaints.

And I know for sure I have a higher threshold of tolerance for being asked to fill in the blanks and smooth out the rough edges as a GM than other folks... but that's to be expected when you spend the entire product life of a game you hate the very core of running it because it's what your buddies want to play the most (not Shadowrun, to be clear - this game I run because I love it).

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #13 on: <11-08-19/0231:52> »
D&D 5e debates on rules frequently refer to the "Word of God" on Twitter that has to settle their debates.
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Leith

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« Reply #14 on: <11-08-19/0641:09> »
I think the main difference in the issues with SR to other games is that the book is riddled with errors, more than is usual for a game's core book. On top of that many of the mechanics in 6e are familiar to those of use who played 5e but are simultaneously a vast departure from that territory. To some these are welcome changes, to others they are badwrongterrible and must be fixed. In the meantime maybe we should just assume no one will fix anything. Cuz they may not fix that one thing you hate and then what will you do?