[The Bald Man]

Given the difficulty of getting around mana barriers is Quickening Metamagic a trap for the black trenchcoat types? 

[firebug]

If you get the Flux metamagic, you can use it to bypass wards (however, during this time your quickened spells won't affect you as they are temporarily scrambled).  Otherwise the only other way to do so is to manually deactivate all sustained spells and active foci so the ward can't detect you at all.

While it is an extra costs, Flux would be useful in a black trenchcoat type game anyways, and it's worth it to be able to use the immensely powerful Quickening metamagic.

[Slipperychicken]

It seems pretty reasonable to me. When you press through a mana barrier, just get one net hit for every quickened spell, and you're golden. Just be sure to be a charisma mage.

If you only have one quickened spell on you, then you can guarantee it will stay up because you need one net hit to press through anyway.

[The Bald Man]

It seems pretty reasonable to me. When you press through a mana barrier, just get one net hit for every quickened spell, and you're golden. Just be sure to be a charisma mage.

If you only have one quickened spell on you, then you can guarantee it will stay up because you need one net hit to press through anyway.

Pressing through still notifies the owner - just like attacking it does. 

If you get the Flux metamagic, you can use it to bypass wards (however, during this time your quickened spells won't affect you as they are temporarily scrambled).  Otherwise the only other way to do so is to manually deactivate all sustained spells and active foci so the ward can't detect you at all.

While it is an extra costs, Flux would be useful in a black trenchcoat type game anyways, and it's worth it to be able to use the immensely powerful Quickening metamagic.

Flexible Signature -> Flux -> Quicken.  If you go in that order it works.  My GM makes each initiation more difficult than the last (don't just pay karma and go) so 3 initiations is daunting. 

My point is that Quicken causes a whole new set of problems that are very hard to overcome. 

[Slipperychicken]

It seems pretty reasonable to me. When you press through a mana barrier, just get one net hit for every quickened spell, and you're golden. Just be sure to be a charisma mage.

If you only have one quickened spell on you, then you can guarantee it will stay up because you need one net hit to press through anyway.

Pressing through still notifies the owner - just like attacking it does. 

Do you know where it says that? I'm having some trouble finding it.

[The Bald Man]

Sidebar in Street Grimior p135 under "fooling wards". 
It is possible to attack a mana barrier or to press through it (p. 315, SR5), but doing so alerts the ward’s creator to the action, which is
something the magician may want to avoid. A magician may use Flux if they have learned it, or become the astral doppelganger of a person
approved to pass through the ward. Crossing the ward using either option requires an Opposed Test of the character’s Intuition + Magic
+ initiate grade vs. Force of the ward x 2. If the individual succeeds in this test, they are able to cross the ward without alerting the ward’s
creator. If they failed, they cannot cross, but they have not yet alerted the ward’s creator

[Slipperychicken]

Sidebar in Street Grimior p135 under "fooling wards". 
It is possible to attack a mana barrier or to press through it (p. 315, SR5), but doing so alerts the ward’s creator to the action, which is
something the magician may want to avoid. A magician may use Flux if they have learned it, or become the astral doppelganger of a person
approved to pass through the ward. Crossing the ward using either option requires an Opposed Test of the character’s Intuition + Magic
+ initiate grade vs. Force of the ward x 2. If the individual succeeds in this test, they are able to cross the ward without alerting the ward’s
creator. If they failed, they cannot cross, but they have not yet alerted the ward’s creator

There we go. I was stuck looking in the core book which only specifies it for attacking.

[Tarislar]

Given the difficulty of getting around mana barriers is Quickening Metamagic a trap for the black trenchcoat types? 

That & it turns into a massive Karma sink too since you keep wanting to learn more & more spells to "buff" yourself with.

[Quatar]

Given the difficulty of getting around mana barriers is Quickening Metamagic a trap for the black trenchcoat types? 

That & it turns into a massive Karma sink too since you keep wanting to learn more & more spells to "buff" yourself with.

Well the minimum amount of Karma you spend per spell is 1. Anything else just gives a bonus to dispelling, which is nice fo course, but maybe not too often relevant.
So for 1 karma you can get the semi-permanent benefit of Wired Reflexes 3, or increase an attribute by 4 etc... That is EXTREMELY cheap.

Even if it only lasts for a while, and you have to recast it every month or so.

[firebug]

Yeah, it's...  Easily the single most powerful metamagic, as it multiplies the power of sustained spells.  It's absolutely worth getting Flux to be able to sneak through barriers with it; the amount of money and karma you save not needing multiple Sustaining Foci, is a huge deal.  It's a big part of what makes mage the strongest archetype; their buff spells are incredibly flexible (they include the only way to directly augment BOD and CHA, for instance) or just powerful (Increase Reflexes is the best initiative boost in the game).  Quickened Deflection in combination with Increase INT and/or Increase REA isn't visibly noticeable, and makes you significantly harder to hit.

[Tecumseh]

Whether Quickening is a trap option is entirely dependent on your GM. If you have a lenient GM or are playing in a high-powered game where large dice pools are acceptable, then Quickening is the fastest and easiest way to make the leap to Prime Runner. (A good teammate should be quickening Combat Sense on everyone, not just themselves.)

But if your GM is playing things tightly in terms of wards and background counts and other things that might pop the spells then Quickening can be a rabbit hole. Whether it is worth the multiple initiations becomes a question of opportunity cost and what else you want the character to be good at, which can be just as much of a question about fun as it is about effectiveness.

[The Bald Man]

you spend 29 for your first 2 initiations for minor yield.  Then you spend 19 karma on quickening and BAM!  you can average 10 hits (post edge and F6 spirit assist) on quickened spells (more if you have a spellcasting/power focus).  10 hits on all your favorite buff spells turns you into an unstoppable beast. 
...while awesome for the mage isn't fun for anyone else at the table.  I need to rethink this. 

[firebug]

I have some houserules to balance Quickening, which I think you could consider.  They keep it powerful, and useful without it being just the absolute monster and arms race it can be.

1)  When a spell is quickened, its limit becomes the limit of the spell as cast at its force; modifiers like using edge to Push the Limit or reagents disappear, and any hits above the Limit of the spell are lost as normal.

2) You cannot quicken a spell that has been overcast at a Force above your MAG rating; if your Magic attribute drops below the spell's Force at any point, the quickened spell's Force is permanently lowered to your current MAG and cannot be increased.  (You may, however, cancel the spell if you wish and re-quicken it, paying for it with Karma again)

3) The Karma cost to Quicken a spell is (Force) Karma.  This is how it was in the previous edition, by the way.

This makes Quickening still a powerful tool, but the investment per spell is increased, making it harder to quicken a dozen max-Force spells on you.  It also limits the power of the spells, so you can't simply cast a F12 spell with Edge, get 18 hits, and then quicken that.

A reasonable in-game justification is that for 1), those temporary boosts fade as the quickened spell normalizes and forms to your aura.  For 2), your aura cannot properly quicken a spell that your own MAG rating can't normally power; it's just too powerful of a spell for you to sustain this way.  Number 3 isn't something that can be keened in-game, and so doesn't need an explanation beyond "it's for game balance".

[Tecumseh]

firebug's house rules are all reasonable. If you search the forum, you will find several threads with other suggestions about how to house rule quickening.

One I use is that the caster must buy hits when casting a spell to be quickened. You can use foci and mentor spirit bonuses but not Edge. That usually limits the hits to 3-4, which is enough to give the recipient a nice boost without turning them into an unstoppable juggernaut.

[firebug]

Buying hits is a good way to balance it, but I shy away from it because it means you can't organically decide to quicken a spell after you've cast it normally.  It's not a common occurrence by any means, but as written you should be able to say...  Cast a Physical Barrier or something, then realize you want/need it to last a loooong time, and then decide to Quicken it even if you weren't originally planning to.