[Niladen]

It's important to note than due to how the real world technology of gas vents and silencers work, they are diametrically opposed. A gun could not realistically work with both mods on. The gas vents try to expel as much gas as possible in controlled vectors to reduce recoil whereas the silencer tries to contain as much gas as possible to silence the gunshot. Even if RAW allows it, physics doesn't.

[Namikaze]

It's important to note than due to how the real world technology of gas vents and silencers work, they are diametrically opposed. A gun could not realistically work with both mods on. The gas vents try to expel as much gas as possible in controlled vectors to reduce recoil whereas the silencer tries to contain as much gas as possible to silence the gunshot. Even if RAW allows it, physics doesn't.

A) This is a science fiction game.
B) This is fiction.
C) Lots of things in Shadowrun break physics.  Because it's fiction.
D) Technomancers and Mages can't exist according to physics.  Good thing Shadowrun is fiction.

[Kanly]

GasVent vs. integral silencer was already discussed in relation to the ISX. I think most posters concluded that you can have both you just can't use both for the same shot.

[Michael Chandra]

Not me, though. I believe that with the change in recoil balance, having both is no longer a horrid gamebreaking thing. So whether they work together we cannot know for sure until Run&Gun is out.

[Niladen]

It's important to note than due to how the real world technology of gas vents and silencers work, they are diametrically opposed. A gun could not realistically work with both mods on. The gas vents try to expel as much gas as possible in controlled vectors to reduce recoil whereas the silencer tries to contain as much gas as possible to silence the gunshot. Even if RAW allows it, physics doesn't.

A) This is a science fiction game.
B) This is fiction.
C) Lots of things in Shadowrun break physics.  Because it's fiction.
D) Technomancers and Mages can't exist according to physics.  Good thing Shadowrun is fiction.

And yet, things like gravity, electricity, and magnetism still exist. Even though magic/techno isn't real, the magic/techno in Shadowrun still follows its own set of rules and boundaries, a large part of what physics is in the universe. Everything in Shadowrun does. If someone used a sustaining focus to cast a higher level combat spell someone would point out magic doesn't work that way. If someone added SnS rounds to an assault rifle for a bonus of -7 AP someone would point out armour piercing doesn't work that way. If someone used physical attribute points to add to their special attributes during character creation, someone would point out it doesn't work that way. And if someone is going to add a gas vent to their silenced weapon because they think they work together, I'm going to point out it doesn't work that way. Even if it's a fantasy world you;re creating, if you're going to base it off the real world, you might want to get the real world right.

[samoth]

Guns in Shadowrun have never followed real world logic.  The Slivergun is a perfect example, but other things like an Ares Alpha somehow having 2 RC innate that no other gun has, or the Ingram's suppressor/gas vent combo are illogical at best but are fine as RAW in a made up fantasy game.

[Niladen]

The Slivergun uses something that is described as akin to flechette rounds, which do in fact exist modern day, the Ares Alpha apparently has some sort of specially designed barrel (Heavier perhaps? Who knows, that one is kind of handwavium), and the Ingram is most likely just an oversight of real world physics. If guns in Shadowrun don't follow real world logic then that's just a bigger argument that they should, in fact, be paying more attention to real world technology when they build something out of it.

[Kanly]

The slivergun uses very small slivers. They're not flechettes, they only use the same rules for damage and various spreads. The weapon isn't a shotgun, can't fire slugs but it can be suppressed.

Shotguns use flechette. Flechettes today are pretty much the "AP version" of shot rounds.

Actual shot rounds are written to be completely ineffective against 21st century armor and so are long forgotten.

[samoth]

The Slivergun uses something that is described as akin to flechette rounds, which do in fact exist modern day, the Ares Alpha apparently has some sort of specially designed barrel (Heavier perhaps? Who knows, that one is kind of handwavium), and the Ingram is most likely just an oversight of real world physics. If guns in Shadowrun don't follow real world logic then that's just a bigger argument that they should, in fact, be paying more attention to real world technology when they build something out of it.

The Slivergun is literally a fantasy creation, it shaves chunks off a block of (something) to fire and can be suppressed.  There is nothing currently like that in the real world, though who knows about 35 years from now (it has existed in the same form since SR1 set in 2050).  It's just a legacy holdover that makes no sense but doesn't really negatively impact the balance of the game world.

The Ingram has actually been changed through the editions to have the integral Gas Vent and Suppressor at the same time, so by RAW they both work the concurrently unless otherwise stated officially.  It's just a Snowflake Gun like the Slivergun, Alpha, and UFRC which needs a big old nerf.

[Niladen]

I didn't know that about the Slivergun. The fifth edition book just says it fires ammunition similar to flechette rounds. And I know that gas vents and silencers work together by RAW, I already mentioned that. I simply pointed out that they shouldn't and some GMs may rule as such.

[samoth]

Yes logically they shouldn't work together, but Shadowrun doesn't follow logic.  However, who knows what futuretech may bring, in 50 years there may be a breakthrough in suppressor/venting tech.

[Kincaid]

Yes logically they shouldn't work together, but Shadowrun doesn't follow logic.  However, who knows what futuretech may bring, in 50 years there may be a breakthrough in suppressor/venting tech.

This would require a breakthrough in physics, but I'm happy to handwave some of the stranger aspects of Shadowrun physics.  I don't want to open the can of worms again, but I feel like it's worth reminding people a few things.  Shadowrun editors have a history of using the words "integral" and "internal" interchangeably.  If all integral accessories don't take up a slot, you can end up with guns with two shock pads and/or two folding stocks.  Furthermore, it makes the fact that many of the item descriptions specify exactly where the accessory is ("barrel-mounted-gas-vent 2") seem like a bizarre layout decision.

[Kanly]

as always common sense applies to rules, nobody thinks you can mount two stocks etc

[samoth]

Yes logically they shouldn't work together, but Shadowrun doesn't follow logic.  However, who knows what futuretech may bring, in 50 years there may be a breakthrough in suppressor/venting tech.

This would require a breakthrough in physics, but I'm happy to handwave some of the stranger aspects of Shadowrun physics.  I don't want to open the can of worms again, but I feel like it's worth reminding people a few things.  Shadowrun editors have a history of using the words "integral" and "internal" interchangeably.  If all integral accessories don't take up a slot, you can end up with guns with two shock pads and/or two folding stocks.  Furthermore, it makes the fact that many of the item descriptions specify exactly where the accessory is ("barrel-mounted-gas-vent 2") seem like a bizarre layout decision.

SR is in dire need of term standardization, but it'd probably not going to happen.

[Niladen]

as always common sense applies to rules, nobody thinks you can mount two stocks etc

Imagine the recoil reduction if you could mount a dozen tripods.