[skalchemist]

While I was in Bangkok I stayed at a warehouse on the docks with about 20 other guys. Zero privacy, poverty level living basically. The training of those guys focused a lot more on technical skill and endurance, they did very little dedicated strength training past what the aforementioned training afforded them, which was decent. I on the other hand couldn't give up my dedicated strength training, so was lever pressing broken down tuk-tuks, curling 60 lb stone blocks with ropes tied around them for grips, bench pressing sealed barrels 1/2 filled with dirt, ect.

The training culture is a lot different between some cultures and combat styles, between wealth and poverty, as well as between street / amateur / professional levels, at least at that time just over 10 years ago.

Lormyr, this has nothing to do with Shadowrun 6E, but I'm pretty sure I would read your memoir.  "lever pressing broken down tuk-tuks" is serious super-hero origin story fodder, is what I am saying.  :-)

[Lormyr]

See, I'd quibble, and say that avoiding fatigue is a measure of having the strength to tolerate some sustained exertion.  And for that matter, the Fatigue status should be a very familiar bugaboo if you insist on playing a STR 1 character.  Just wearing a helmet tired the hell out of me when I was in active duty.

That is two separate physical feats.

Your story is a function of muscular strength and muscle fiber endurance - which is improved by strength training, and is a good example of game strength. Bearing a load.

Avoiding becoming winded in a battle, or any other prolonged physical activity that does not require bearing a load beyond your own body weight (fighting, running, swimming, sex, ect.) is a function of cardiovascular strength, which is a good example of game body.

This goes to illustrate that it's hard to parse the difference between related attributes.

Agreed, in particular on Strength and Body being easily folded as currently relates to SR6 mechanics.

Lormyr, this has nothing to do with Shadowrun 6E, but I'm pretty sure I would read your memoir.  "lever pressing broken down tuk-tuks" is serious super-hero origin story fodder, is what I am saying.  :-)

The lever pressing of a tuk-tuk sounds more impressive than it actually is. Those things might weight 500ish lbs., but the act of lever pressing turns that weight into more of a pulley system, so it was probably closer to only shoulder pressing 180-200 lbs.

I could fill a memoir of ages 22-30 with good stories, but I've had enough excitement for one life. I try to live boring now, and I mostly succeed admirably. :p

[krypticz]

Well, it seems like you want to rant more than have a discussion, but I'll engage you.

Let's start off by acknowledging that we have a pretty fair divergence of opinion on whether adding to AR is a "mostly useless" benefit.  This edition revolves almost entirely around the edge mechanic, and getting more edge/edge more easily is actually a Big Fragging Deal.  That Str 8 Orc is likely gonna pound the Str 1 elf into the dirt, over time, due to an edge disparity.

Yes, melee combat went away from the Str/X+Y damage codes. Everything is (supposed to be) static DVs now.  And yes, in the case of Unarmed strikes that static DV is 2S, no matter what your STR stat is. Of course certain Qualities, Augmentations, and Powers can increase that DV.

The raw DV of an attack was inflated before the errata/nerf.  Consider that Massive weapons like Combat Axes and Assault Cannons did LESS damage than optimized unarmed strikes under the preceding STR/2 paradigm.  You had the stupid situation where picking up a melee weapon made you less dangerous, not more.  Additionally, this is an edition where a fragging anti-tank gun does 7P. I don't care how strong you are, you shouldn't be punching harder than an assault cannon.  of course YMMV, but generally I trust you agree a change of SOME kind had to be made?  We went, obviously, with turning unarmed DV down rather than cranking everything else up.  If you build for unarmed combat, you'll take the qualities/augmentations/powers for it.  And when you do, you're swinging 4-5+P punches.  That's still remarkably effective, in comparison to the raw damage guns do.  Yes, guns have range, but now ALL melee has mad AR, if you take high STR.  And rushing into a gunfight with a knife is exactly the kind of "push your luck" heroics that edge is meant to represent!

so, TL;DR: complaining that STR 1 has the same DV as STR X is, imo, a non-sequitur. What's actually more important is the question of who got edge/got edge denied.  And if you disagree with that, well then what's more important still than your DV is how big your attacking dice pool is.  You do no damage even at infinite STR if you miss.  And something you may have missed is that 6we is a bit more flexible with what attributes go with what skill.  If you're using a big heavy weapon, your GM is perfectly within her rights to insist you roll Skill + STR instead of Skill + AGI.

Re Bonus Question: There's rules for disarming.  Your strength sets an unopposed threshold.  STR 1, or even 2, is just itching to give your weapon away to the enemy.

As an addendum: I will point out there's nothing stopping you from expanding the rule regarding the role of STR in hardened cyberlimbs to ALL melee weapons.  Just sayin'.

Thank you for your comment on this topic.  I wish this was better explained in the book.  This is starting to make far more sense to me now