[Mystic]

As a peace officer and someone who has done a lot of work in private security, I still enjoy hearing about the (mis)adventures of the Lone Star/KE-types. Do I see glaring inaccuricies when it comes to things like due process, you betcha.

"due process" isn't exactly a word found in the Lone Star employees vocabulary  

Sure it is! Their process is just a bit...different is all. 

[The_Gun_Nut]

I'm thinking a troll adept with that Supernatural Toughness power from Digital Grimoire might be able to survive a 25P or 30P hit, depending.

Of course, none of his buddies are around to help stabilize him anymore.  So, there's that.

[Mara]

To me, I think the biggest issue with War! is: it doesn't fit into a nice, neat little niche.
I do like the book, don't get me wrong, but I can see why some people wouldn't.
One of the sort of hallmarks of 4th Edition until WAR! was: each book was a narrowly defined,
focused on one thing product. We have just setting information in Runner Havens, Corporate Enclaves,
and Feral Cities, we have just plot info in Emergence, we have just 'For use in your game' info in the
Core Books and Running Wild. These books are EASY to go "Well, this book does this. I can use it for my
campaign. I will buy it."

War!, however, breaks this trend. It is Setting Book with all the info on Bogota, it is plot book with the stuff
relating to war, it is rules book with the section of gear and expanded rules dealing with military/merc operations.
It cannot be neatly classified and defined. It does not fit into a neat little cubby-hole where someone can look at it
and go "I want to get this book for THIS." If you buy it for the gear, then alot of stuff in it is useless to you. If you buy
it for the stuff on Bogota, not caring about the war or the geat, a lot is useless to you. If you buy it for the plot info,
but do not plan to have your players as military, nor plan to set it in Bogota, alot of the book is useless to you.

This, by the way, is the same issue that you have with Runer's Companion: If your game is not going to be allowing
players things like SURGE, Metavariants, Karma or Priority Chargen, Sapient Critters, AIs, Spirits, or Infected....well, there is
alot in the book that is pretty much useless for a player. Interestingly, Runner's Companion is also the most looked down
upon of the core books. Coincidence? I think not.

I hate to say it, but the Shadowrun Fanbase seems to fall into two categories: those who just want a game about shooting
people in the face for money....with elves, and those who want to treat the universe as the living, breathing thing it is. The
'net vocal majority are the "Shooting people in the face for money...with elves" crowd. Books like WAR! are not intended for
them. Unfortunately, since War! includes something that are kind of odd(the whole Tree's sub-plot, for instance), some of the
"It is a living, breathing universe" crowd might get turned off. Regarding the Tree's plot? Yeah, it is strange, but, you know what?
We need some strange from time to time. Honestly, since 4th, we have had a little less strangeness in Shadowrun. It's been kind of
bland, really. This, strange, odd though it may be, injects back some of the old 2nd Edition "wait..what? Are you fragging SERIOUS?!"
back into the game.

So, over all, my impression of war is: Ambitious book..it did kind of fall short of what it was aiming for(something that everyone would
want to buy) by being too un-focused. However, it is still a useful book for people like me who will use the stuff as a GM or as a player
(already have a couple concepts going through my head from it for Technomancer and Mage characters, for instance). Good book for
those who want to know what is going on in the universe. If you don't like the trees? Well, duh, Fog of War...it's probably something
else, and people just THINK it's the trees...You can still use the info as presented for runs(steal the shipment of tree related stuff) or
even for your start of the session news bits(You do still do those, right?) Or maybe you are playing a character from Bogota who
is in Seattle, Chicago, LA, Hong Kong...The book, like Runners Companion, is a tool kit.

[EmperorPenguin]

I know bringing things back from the dead goes against SR principles, but the website redesign and my own recent forays into War! (it was at the bottom of the pile, sorry) have given me an insight I thought was worth sharing.

Both Mara’s post above (and this post by Wesley Street) discuss what I think were the common expectations for War!

Knowing that the book would focus on the war between Aztlan/Aztech and Amazonia, a lot of expectations were for a Plot sourcebook that covered the conflict in detail.  Both Emergence and Ghost Cartels were excellent books, so expectations were high.

I can’t substantiate this, but I believe that Shadowrun players often have a fair bit of interest in militaries, military history and weaponry.  So there were hopes for plenty of maps, detailed progression of battles, high-level strategies and (of course) MilSpec Tech.  I’m not sure if this would classify more as Core Rulebook or Setting – probably depends on how crunchy it was.

What we got instead was the first of the Deep Shadows sourcebooks, a combination of setting, metaplot and gear, with a focus on setting.  Which is fine if you know that, but being the first of its kind, I think expectations were definitely geared to the styles listed above.  I believe the book was marketed to those expectations as well.

We can expect similar formats for Spy Games and Conspiracy Theories.  I’m looking forward to both those books.  My hope is that the editing problems that plagued War! (which have been discussed ad nauseum but are hard to avoid) will not be present in those books and will lead to a better reception.

[Bull]

My hope is that the editing problems that plagued War! (which have been discussed ad nauseum but are hard to avoid) will not be present in those books and will lead to a better reception.

So far commentary on the editing and proofing for Attitude has been fairly positive.  And I know that a concerted effort was made by the freelance pool to look Attitude over and check things for ourselves before it went to layout.  So that probably helped.

Bull

[CanRay]

OK, read through War! again.  My first take on it was from reading it in an ER Waiting Room during a sleepless and very stressful night.  And day.  And night again.

Anyhow, I think it was my expectations that coloured my view of War!, as well as the environment (mentally and physically) I was reading it in.  As some had said numerous times, "We expected War! and got Bogota!".

There is a slight bit of truth to that.  It does seem like the book focuses too much on one area of the world while the rest is just dropped in.  And the lack of a map of Bogota is really telling as well (Sorry, but I likes me my maps.  Show my groups where they are and where they're going, and so on.).

Some of the items in the equipment section are rather, odd as well.  Some are quite powerful, but the availability makes them easy enough to not allow, and also "rare" enough to ramp up the power level of adversaries as they're hunted for having military hardware.

I've given it a second chance, and I have to say I'm happy enough with my purchase.

[Mystic]

New kit is always good, but i find myself liking the story and setting. But then I admit i have a soft spot for mercs in the sixth world.

[hobgoblin]

Merc = runners that can play with the big toys.

[CanRay]

"Didn't we hire the Merc just because he had an LMG."  "Shhhh, he might read this." 

[Mystic]

I can neither confirm or deny anything from the previous two statements.

 

[Mason]

WAR!

What is, it good for? Heuh!

Anyway, I like any and every setting book or info i can find. I tend to dislike most of the gear and rules I found in War!, but a few were useful, esp. the Leadership rules and the Element grenade spell (I LOVE that one!). In general, i disallow any gear from War!.

On another note, What kind of qualifications do you think are necessary to be a writer for CGL? I am currently in college with a focus on writing and computer technologies, and my eventual desire is to be a writer for a game, be it an RP game or a video game. I am practically obsessing over SR anyway-why not put my fiction overdrive to good use?

[CanRay]

WAR!

What is, it good for? Heuh!

"War, Nobby. Huh! What is it good for?"  Colon said.

"Dunno, sarge. Freeing slaves, maybe?"

"Absol— Well, okay."

"Defending yourself from a totalitarian aggressor?"

"All right, I’ll grant you that, but—"

"Saving civilisation against a horde of—"

"It doesn’t do any good in the long run is what I’m saying, Nobby, if you’d listen for five seconds together,"  Fred Colon sharply.

"Yeah, but in the long run what does, sarge?"  - Thud! by Sir Terry Pratchett