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What kind of support do the writers get?

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Crimsondude

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« Reply #15 on: <09-09-14/0012:50> »
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- The goddamn teleport. It's so "Dragons are special snowflake" that it hurts. At best it's a case of a dragon showing off what he really shouldn't be showing off (no, Peri's special levitate spell does not suffice as an explanation for this shit), at worst it's an author who got his ideas about SR from the xbox game. This is one of the three tenets of SR, and ED planeswalking shouldn't be used to rationalize such crap. No reviving from death. No time travel. No teleportation. It's not that difficult.
Or maybe I know more than the reviewer. Whatever.

I didn't write the Game Info stuff about it because it's not supposed to be understood what/how/why Peri did what he did, but it was legal when I pitched it. That's kinda my deal.

Wazlethwack

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« Reply #16 on: <09-09-14/0054:34> »
I didn't get to the game info section on the teleport yet.  I figured since the Shadowtalk in the book was going back and forth on how the teleport/levitate/whatever the method wasn't meant to be understood.  At least not right now.  Perhaps in later books it was explained.

But any spell like acts like a teleport would be very powerful.  And it could be replicated by methumanity it could change the face of the world.  Instant transportation would be a major game changer.

Namikaze

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« Reply #17 on: <09-09-14/0116:22> »
Instant transportation would be a major game changer.

At least one megacorp would collapse almost overnight.  But really, who feels threatened by Wuxing?  Answer: everyone who thinks they're not a threat.  :P
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Critias

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« Reply #18 on: <09-09-14/1031:19> »
And it could be replicated by methumanity it could change the face of the world.
You're forgetting a very big "if" in that sentence.

AJCarrington

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« Reply #19 on: <09-09-14/1054:11> »
Man, I don't recall teleportation from the book at all...need to go back and re-read it.

@Crimsondude
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It was the last book I had the time and interest to write for...
Have you moved entirely on from SR, or are you doing any other freelance work? Pure curiosity from my side, but if I'm being nosy, apologies and please ignore.

Reaver

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« Reply #20 on: <09-09-14/1229:42> »
Crimson, hope you are still working on SR products..... always enjoyed your work.
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

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Crimsondude

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« Reply #21 on: <09-09-14/1644:13> »
I'm just too busy, but I'm still involved within the writers pool. That is, I'm giving away free material and ideas. ;)


Man, I don't recall teleportation from the book at all...need to go back and re-read it.
Peri whisks the Aztlan/Aztechnology delegation out of Denver to Las Cruces before Ghostwalker was about to assassinate them all. It's not something Peri should be able to do. It's not something anyone should know how to do, except maybe some Great Dragons or immortals. It's not teleportation. The closest explanation in the shadowtalk is that it was some sort of supercharged Levitate spell. Peri's stats mention he knows a custom Levitate spell, which I wouldn't even have mentioned. The whole point is that no one knows how, why, or what he did.


But I love how we cannot put one relatively minor thing in the books that defies explanation, or simply shouldn't get one, without someone calling into question the entire setting and the competence of me and the other writers because ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
« Last Edit: <09-09-14/1654:13> by Crimsondude »

PeterSmith

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« Reply #22 on: <09-09-14/1752:55> »
But I love how we cannot put one relatively minor thing in the books that defies explanation, or simply shouldn't get one, without someone calling into question the entire setting and the competence of me and the other writers because ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

Welcome to the shit that the BattleTech writers got during the Jihad story arc. The books were told with more of an "On the ground" than the usual "Not quite an all seeing eye, but close" perspective. As the book series progressed, there were wrap-up sections in each book for the prior book that solidified the story. Some vocal fans got pissed about the whole approach. Me? I loved the idea.
Power corrupts.
Absolute power is kinda neat.

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Nath

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« Reply #23 on: <09-10-14/0628:39> »
Peri whisks the Aztlan/Aztechnology delegation out of Denver to Las Cruces before Ghostwalker was about to assassinate them all. It's not something Peri should be able to do. It's not something anyone should know how to do, except maybe some Great Dragons or immortals. It's not teleportation. The closest explanation in the shadowtalk is that it was some sort of supercharged Levitate spell. Peri's stats mention he knows a custom Levitate spell, which I wouldn't even have mentioned. The whole point is that no one knows how, why, or what he did.

But I love how we cannot put one relatively minor thing in the books that defies explanation, or simply shouldn't get one, without someone calling into question the entire setting and the competence of me and the other writers because ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
If it shouldn't get an explanation, then the book shouldn't feature half a page discussing what that explanation could be. The topic of those discussions could have been an excuse to introduce another  plot or have an exchange between Jackpointers that emphasizes their character traits or whatever, but it is not. So half a page of wasted paper would call into question the competence of writers. But most reader actually trust the author enough to infer the existence of an explanation from the very fact that the author wrote about the search for one.

Despite the exhortations to "defy the audience's expectation," there are still things that are proven not to work. If you introduce a mystery, then you either explain it (even if it only at the end), or you handwave it. But that's a one-way door. If you started explaining it with theory, you'll frustrate your audience if you ultimately handwave it. And if you openly handwaved it at first before suddenly making the explanation important, you'll just look stupid. Of course, that's the kind of rules that you can ignore if you're a skilled writer (but chances are, if you're skilled enough to do that, you already know about it).

Shadowrun is a tricky setting to have mystery because it has science, technology along with magic and actual written rules for magic (or at least some of the magic). So there can be a really fine line between explaining and handwaving. To a number of people, "dragon magic you cannot understand, you punny mortal who follow the rulebook" falls on the handwaving side. But that line moves based on one's knowledge. Your most typical case is a sci-fi author thinking he is handwaving something using tech jargon, while a part of the audience with appropriate technical background will instead take it as an explanation that is WRONG. But it can also goes the other way, with an author or GM going all fussy about, say, "He's an adult dragon, not a great one, he should not know how to do that!" while most of his audience are totally oblivious to the difference between adult and great dragons beside size.

In the end, it is mostly up to the fact that you're part of a team, even more so as credits don't list who authored which part, who has a record of timeline, geographical and consistency blunders that got noticed. There are people who consider their numbers to be within acceptable limits, and others who don't. And among those, you now have people ready to jump on what they think is the latest blunder. And once they start thinking you are stupid, they systematically apply "Hanlon's Razor" without giving it a thought: never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

For some reason, this reminds me of someone who was mocking the London Sourcebook because SAS action as a secret police force did not match what he knew about this unit, seemingly oblivious to the fact that British writers who lived through the 1980s may have known better.

Patrick Goodman

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« Reply #24 on: <09-10-14/0919:26> »
Just as an aside: The writers who come up with the fiction don't always write the game information that goes with that fiction. There was no game information written by me for "Sleeping With the Enemy" in Storm Front, for instance (except for the stat block cut-and-pasted from Street Legends, but again, that wasn't turned in with the piece and certainly wasn't expected by the author), but there was game info there nonetheless.

I think this might be the case for this section that's under discussion. I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.
Former Shadowrun Errata Coordinator

Crimsondude

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« Reply #25 on: <09-10-14/1248:06> »
Nath: That's a lot of words for "haters gonna hate."
« Last Edit: <09-10-14/1250:18> by Crimsondude »

AJCarrington

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« Reply #26 on: <09-10-14/1436:13> »
I'm just too busy, but I'm still involved within the writers pool. That is, I'm giving away free material and ideas. ;)
Happy to hear that you're still swimming in the pool ;) Regarding the "issue", I guess each to his or her own. I liked it...no issues with "not knowing".

Wazlethwack

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« Reply #27 on: <09-11-14/0536:11> »
My assumption was that the teleport was supposed to remain a mystery.  Possibly a future plot hook.  If so, it makes sense to keep it unexplained.

On the other hand, if in the future the idea of an instant teleport, even by a dragon, is entirely forgotten that would be a shame.  A Star Trek style transporter beam would change the entire face of society.  It would also give the user(s) an enormous tactical advantage in any conflict.  Even if only one dragon can do it, militaries the world around would pay gargantuan amounts of money to rent the services of a teleport.

Mirikon

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« Reply #28 on: <09-11-14/1406:48> »
Before people go bitching and moaning about a 'teleport', answer me this: What do you think would happen if a dragon overcast a Levitate spell and spent edge on it?
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Kincaid

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« Reply #29 on: <09-11-14/1420:34> »
After reading the original Threats book, I had high-ranking members of the Black Lodge teleport in my 2nd edition game.  Don't turn me in to the game police  :-[
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