[Kiirnodel]

"Cultured bioware must be tailor-made for the body in which it will eventually find a home." (Core Rulebook, pg 460).

This makes it pretty clear (to me anyway) that non-cultured bio-ware is NOT specific to the recipient.

Sure, but the OP specifically mentioned Synaptic Boosters, which is cultured.

I'm not a fan of this interpretation. It just doesn't make sense to me. If the ware is not cultured then it is "generic" and being "used" would not change the fact that it was high quality. So IMO you would have a "Used Deltaware" implant with 1.25 * 0.5 = 0.625 multiplier.

You cannot combine "used" and "delta" grades of cyberware. The different grades of 'ware are separate and distinct according to the Core Rulebook (pg 451) "Cyberware and bioware implants are available in five distinct grades: standard, alphaware, betaware, deltaware, and used."

Used is not just an extra modifier. Even in SR4 used could only be added onto Alphaware grade, betaware and deltaware required too much extra tailoring to be able to be used.

And even more-so, the OP is mentioning gammaware, which is the "highly advanced, novahot, bleeding edge, doesn't really exist" grade of gear. There's no way that stuff doesn't need to be tailored specifically to the person getting it implanted...

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

You cannot combine "used" and "delta" grades of cyberware.

Absolutely this.  It doesn't matter whether it was used-grade to begin with or delta-grade.  If the augmentation is refurbished, it's Used.  End of story.

[neomerlin]

I agree that having used versions of high grade augmentations doesn't sit well, to my mind, with the spirit of the rules. Used isn't presented as a modifier broadly applicable but as another grade with costs based on standard, like all other grades.

But beyond RAW and RAI, it makes perfect sense to me, within the metaphysics of the game, that no matter how good the chrome was when somebody put it in their body, ripping it out of them and sticking it in your bits is bad for your soul. You're not just stripping yourself of humanity for hollow and artificial substitutes, it's somebody else's hollow and artificial substitutes. For all intents and physical purposes, used deltaware might work and it might be full of all those fancy deltaware physical components, but metaphysically the fact it's used trumps how it's made.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

It's not just the metaphysics.

I've worked a stint in tech support which involved taking calls from users who bought refurbished phones.  Something I learned from that job was that smartphones never work as well as they did "out of the box".

I can absolutely see cyberware ramping that factor up to 11.

[RickDeckard]

So many good points here, thanks for the excellent feedback!

I totally love the setting of an organ growing factory, holy shit I’m gonna use that! Hahaha

I guess I wasn’t thinking when I said BioWare, I can definitely see how that’s not a good black market option. But Cyberware there’s definitely a black market for and I don’t see why you shouldn’t be able to bring some ware to a doc and have him implant it for a service fee. Also, on the topic of different ware grades, no one has mentioned software updates. I definitely see a lot of wares being upgradeable simply by software. Stuff like skill, reflex and move by wires have a lot of programming that can surely be fine tuned, like an after market tuning of a car. No need to rip out your wired reflexes if you can get a nova hot decker to write you a wiz tuneup program (just pay the difference in ware cost for the upgrade).

[RickDeckard]

And we don’t live a life in the shadows without taking risks. If you wanna wear suspenders and a belt, get a day job =)

[Ajax]

Also, on the topic of different ware grades, no one has mentioned software updates. I definitely see a lot of wares being upgradeable simply by software. Stuff like skill, reflex and move by wires have a lot of programming that can surely be fine tuned, like an after market tuning of a car.

Editions prior had rules for keeping up with the SOTA; It didn’t actually make your gear better so much as representing the software updates, firmware hacks, and other incremental improvements you needed to regularly invest money in so that you could keep current... Failure to do so resulted in your gear getting worse from a game mechanic standpoint.

“You’re still using Wired Reflex SamuraiOS v.3.5 and a Predator II? That’s ‘Whiz,’ gramps. Gonna go listen to some Concrete Dreams audio discs with your ‘Chummers,’ after you take your nap?”

[PiXeL01]

Used and Standard grade cyberware is definitely something you could have lying around for later. Hell, that just gave me a run idea ...

[Wakshaani]

My PERSONAL, and totally unofficial, read is that "recycled" cyber is always one step worse than before. So, standard becomes used, alpha becomes standard, and so on. As long as you have someone getting in there and doing some decent removal, mind.

If you just have the Troll yank somebody's cyberlimb off and take it with you? Used at best and possibly non-functional. That stuff is *delicate* and tied to both your nervous system and your Essence. Brute forcing it just ends badly.

[Kiirnodel]

I would love it if there were rules or guidelines for getting the 'ware separately from the cost of the implantation. Heck, I would be perfectly fine with the idea that paying for the implantation was a completely separate cost in addition to the already stated costs of the 'ware...

I just took a quick look at the run-down of "quality" in Chrome Flesh (starts on page 70), and it very clearly refers to the grades as being directly tied to where you are getting the goods implanted, not just what quality of parts you've managed to find. Want Alphaware? go to an alpha clinic. Managed to save up for betaware? hope you have a way to get yourself an appointment at a beta clinic, they all require you to know someone to get in. (that's nearly a direct quote about beta, btw).

So I'm definitely doubling down on the idea that can't really get the goods separately under normal circumstances. And if you do, it probably isn't going to be high-grade stuff, probably alphaware at best. And that's assuming you've found it in sealed packaging, mint-in-box style stuff.

[Hobbes]

I would love it if there were rules or guidelines for getting the 'ware separately from the cost of the implantation. Heck, I would be perfectly fine with the idea that paying for the implantation was a completely separate cost in addition to the already stated costs of the 'ware...

Had that in other editions, led to odd player behavior.  Didn't add anything to the game (IMO anyway). 

The cost of Implantation was higher than the cost of the 'ware most of the time, so players just skipped the small stuff.  And you'd have characters saving up for years of play time before bothering to upgrade, while other Archetypes were happily advancing. 

In any case, it's not a difficult house rule to make something up for how much does it cost to implant a new widget. 

[Overbyte]

Yah. I still think it makes no logical sense.
Person A gets implanted with standard grade bioware.
Person B gets implanted with delta grade bioware.
You remove the (non-cultured) bioware from A and B and want to reuse them.
They are both now of the same "used" quality?
To me.. not logical.. Perhaps you need a better doctor in one case, but I can't imagine they are the same..  YMMV.

[Ajax]

Game mechanics and game narrative sometimes need to be separated from one another, if not divorced completely.

[Kiirnodel]

One man's treasure is another man's trash.

Since higher grade 'ware requires high-grade facilities to implant them, what makes you think that bringing in some second-hand stuff is going to be treated the same as it originally was? I would definitely say that previously-used implants are by no means the same quality as they were when they were initially implanted.

I don't think any proper clinic worthy of the name would use recycled goods anyway, which basically defaults any 'ware that was taken from a previous user as being standard at best. And really, something that's got someone else's DNA and viscera all over it doesn't strike me as being "standard."

Why would it matter how nice it was when it was put into the first person? It's just like wrecked cars, they're all worth the same amount at the scrap-heap.

[Marcus]

The simulationist in me screams: "You should never be able to implant a custom tailor organ into person it wasn't customized for. It should be rejected and lead to terrible things.  Used Cultured Bioware should not even be possible.  Used ware I get. But i'm just never going to accept that concept of used used cultured bioware."

But Systems are systems for a reason. It's not worth losing sleep over it.