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Looking for Feedback for Decker/Face (social engineer) balance act

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corak1884

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« on: <04-09-18/0258:33> »
Dear Chummers,
this is Jack, investigative journalist and social engineer, trying an balancing act between decker (primary role), face (secondary role) and a bit of combat support and B&E. The background is leaned on a figure in the novels of Chris Brookmyre, a scotish author.
Your feedback is highly welcome, please don't hesitate to tell me if I forget elementary gear, have implementated calculation errors or simply overlooked opportunities or limits. Some weak spots right now are edge and broader skills (they will come after 2-3 runs, hope to compensate the wide approach with the Jack-of-all-Trades quality).


Ruleset is Shadowrun 5, generated with Sum-to-ten: Resources (A), Skills (B), Attributes (B), Metatype (E), Magic (E), Starting Karma spent

Attributes:
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* STR = 1 (2)
* AGI = 2 (4), right Cyberarm with AGI 8
* REA = 2 (5)
* BOD = 3
* LOG = 6 (8)
* INT = 5 (6)
* CHA = 5
* WIL = 5
* EDGE = 3

Limits: Physical (4), Mental (9), Social (7)

Positive Qualities:
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* Overclocker 5 (+1 to one cyberdeck attribute)
* Perfect Time 5 (+1 free action per action phase)
* Profiler (+3 DP to social skills when background dossier available, -1 to social Limit if not)
* Codeslinger (Hack on the Fly) +2
* Jack of all Trades, Master of none

Negative Qualities:
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* Allergy (Light, Uncommon : Copper, -2 to physical tests)
* Phobia (Uncommon / Moderate = fear of flying, -1 dice)
* Thrill Seeker (Composure [2] or take most risky option. +1 INI for 6 Combat Turns=
* Latest and Greatest (must spend 60% in gear upgrades)
* Did you just call me dump? (social glitch = critical glitch)
* Prejutices vs. Katholics (biased)

Active Skills
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* Hacking 6 (Hosts)
* Computer 6 (Matrix perception)
* Cybercombat 1
* Hardware 1 (Jack out)
* Software 1 (Data bombs)
* Electronic Warfare 6 (Communications)
* Automatics 4 (Machine Pistol)
* Perception 1 (Visual)
* Con 1 (Fast Talk)
* Gymnastics 1
* Impersonation 1
* Etiquette 2
* Negotiation 1
* Stealth Group 5 (Disguise, Palming, Sneaking)

Knowledge Skills
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* Native Language (English)
* German (Language) 1
* Matrix security 6 (hosts)
* Augmentations 2
* Social Engineering 3
* Local Rumor Mill 2
* Data brokerage 2
* Living in sprawl 2
* Barebecue recipes 2
* Military Security Procedures 1
* Police Procedures 1
* Detection of Magic Phenomenons 1


Connections
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* Journalist / Publisher (Loy 5 Con 2)
* Street Doc (Loy 4 Con 2)
* Fixer (Loy 1 Con 1)




'Ware:
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* (Used) Reaction Enhancer 3
* (Used) Muscle Toner 2
* (Used) Muscle Augmentation 1
* (Beta) Datajack
* Smartlink
* Cyberear 1 (Selective Sound Filter 1 + 3x Antenna)
* Sleep Regulator
* Cerebral Booster 2
* Cerebellumbooster 1
* (Genware) Tetrachromatic Vision (+3 to visual perception, low light vision)
* (Used) Syntetic Cyberimb (Right Arm): Customization AGI+3/STR+1, Agility Enhancement 2, Large Smuggling Compartment

Essence spend: 4,4
Essence left: 1,6

Equipment:
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* Basic Gear: Flashlight, Backpack, Survival Knife, Crowbar, Mini-Welder, Powertape, Medkit R3, Vital monitor, Trauma Patch, Toolkit foerensics, handcuffs metal, handcuffs plastic (20), Tag eraser, bug scanner, white noise generator R6)
* SIN & Lifestyle: SIN 1 with 4 licences, SIN 4 with 4 licences - each for cyberware, firearms, cyberdeck and vehicle, Low lifestyle (1 month), certified credstick (8)
* Sensory: Kontact lenses R3 (with vision enhancement 3), Glasses R4 (with vision magnification, thermographic, flare compansation), Earbuds R3 (with audio enhancement 3)
* Weapons: Steyr TMP (internal Smartgun, personalized grip, gasvent 3), spare clips (4), extended clips (2), concealed holster, ammunition (standard (120), gel rounds (30), Stick'n'Shock (30), dumdum (30)), flashpack grenade, smoke grenades (2)
* Armor: Armor Jacket, Forearm Guards, Ballistic mask, Ulysses Coat, Berwick Suit, Disguise toolbox
Vehicle: Yamaha Growler Bike
* FlySpy (Drone)
* Electronic & Matrix: Little Honet Cyberdeck (5411, Device R2 + MDCP + Program Carrier with Virtual Machine for total 4 programs), Agent R3, Shopsoft, Mapsoft, Datasoft (2), Common programs (9), Hacking programs (27), MetaLink (4), Transys Avalon, Satellite link. some data chips, RFID chips, data tap, electronic toolbox
* Some cheap drugs (Cram, Jazz, Bliss, Novacoke)







ShadowcatX

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« Reply #1 on: <04-09-18/1036:24> »
First, the build is illegal, you can't buy beta 'ware in character creation.

And you have ran up against why being a decker face is a bad combination, your face skills are abysmal, you don't have tailered pheromones, etc. You're not a face, not even an off face, you have the minimum lying capability required to break the law and not blush if (and when) someone asks you about it.

Basically, your options are to drop either Attributes or resources and add a point to skills and actually get your face skills, probably resources. You can drop a lot of your physical 'ware as well, though you may well want to pick up a narco, it will help you get extra mileage out of your drugs, and you'll probably want drugs to help you hack and to help you face.

Marcus

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« Reply #2 on: <04-09-18/1053:14> »
You have run up against a rather hard combination. Decking is as you know deeply skill intensive.
Face isn't but you do need Negotiation maxed and Con at solid level, and enough etiquette that you never end up looking too stupid.
Couple points your instinct on the cyberarm is solid, decking combat support is generally best handled with a nice beefy cyberarm.
So double down on that and forget muscle toners and muscle augs. You don't need it and it's just not helping.

You're gonna have to make some hard choices on skills. You should seriously consider swapping resources and skills in priority, if your serous about this. But 1 won't do. Eliminate what you can You don't need impersonate and you don't need gymnastics, move stealth Group into something actually useful, sneaking is all really need out of that, and you can really leave that other archtype anyways.
 
ShadowcatX can be a little on the harsh side but he not wrong and he does make some good suggestions. Novacoke can be helpful for 2nd string facing.
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #3 on: <04-09-18/1128:19> »
I think I caught a mistake in the math, but it's good news rather than bad news!

I'm pretty sure your AGI should be 2(5) rather than 2(4).  Unaugmented 2, +2 from Muscle Toner, +1 due to the averaged AGI stats across the whole body (including the Cyberlimb).  If you're specifically doing something with your right arm (and only your right arm) the AGI is 8.  Specifically NOT using the right arm it'd be 2(4).  Not specified (i.e. most of the time), it'd be 2(5).


Tall and short skill stacks vs 3's and 4's across the board:  I'd agree with the conventional wisdom to for tall and short skills.  It's more effective to be "hacking ready" out of the gates and then focus on building social skills than to be mediocre at both at the start of the campaign.  It's also cheaper to increase the social skills starting at 1s rather than everything starting at 3s/4s.
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corak1884

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« Reply #4 on: <04-09-18/1145:34> »
Dear Marcus, dear Shadowcat and Devil Rat,

first of all thank you for your feedback, much appreciated!

I didn't knew that betaware is not valid in character creation, but not hard to reduce it to alpha, as it is only for the datajack on a kind of fluff tought for a "good DNI portal to the digital world" :)

I'll have a closer look on your point with dropping down resources, swapping it for skills. When I started tinkering with nuyen I first had a deck far more expensive in mind, till I noticed that I don't have the dice to use the higher limits - and went with the Hornet instead.
Narco is nice, yes - but don't I loose the positive modifiers drugs provide once I am addicted to them? I was aiming for pharmaceutical grade drugs, btw.

Quick question regarding impersonate: Isn't that a quite important skill to blend into, e.g. when you're trying to get in somewhere in the open (like a kind of social sneaking)? Or is this my misinterpretation?

@Devil Rat
Thank you for the math on the average agility!  8) Good news, as you said
Padon me, what do you mean about the tall and short skills? Is that an objection against what Marcus wrote?

ShadowcatX

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« Reply #5 on: <04-09-18/1239:51> »
It is an easy fix but it is an important one as well.

And by short / tall skills he means skills at either 6 (tall) or 1 (short) as opposed to 3/4.

Marcus

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« Reply #6 on: <04-09-18/1657:04> »
I assume SSRD is refer to having skill groups at 3 and 4s rather 1 and 6's. If that's the case however 1's in the social when you are attempting to Face is Dead man walking. It's not a question of build philosophy, or cheaper to raise, the Face primary duty to nailing the pay roll at the talk with the Johnson, and 1 just won't cut it. 6 with a spec, would be 13 and that still on the light end, but it would do.
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FST_Gemstar

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« Reply #7 on: <04-09-18/1918:04> »
It's a fair enough build. I would probably but your Stealth group into Influence or Acting. As as social engineer, you don't have to do a lot of sneaking. You talk your way through obstacles, with hacked matrix evidence to back you up.   

I would probably go for Narco just for the Psyche bonus....good for judging intentions, matrix searches/perception, hacking, etc. It also would let you drop the reaction enhancers and just use cram. Perk of having high logic/willpower is that drugs can be a big part of your play if you want with less risk... You don't lose drug perks for being addicted, just risk needing the drugs and suffering penalties if you don't have them (rare). 

This may be a character I would probably prefer to have used muscle toner 3 than a cyberarm. You may lose some shooting dice, but you will have more stealth options with less skill when you need them.  I also may try a ECEAA. It will let you but Skillgroups in Influence/Stealth, put super skillpoints/specs in key social/hacking, and round out your basic set. 
« Last Edit: <04-09-18/1940:03> by FST_Gemstar »

FST_Gemstar

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« Reply #8 on: <04-09-18/1931:42> »
Are you set on decking/face? Techno/Face actually works well too, and I find profiler works better when you have have an army of crack sprites about. Not to mention Diagnostics-ing up some social armor.
« Last Edit: <04-09-18/1935:43> by FST_Gemstar »

corak1884

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« Reply #9 on: <04-10-18/1143:19> »
Wow, that's a very nice input of feedback - and I'm glad to have joined this community  :D

Maybe there is a misunderstanding of the face conception in my head: I'm not after a high negotiation roll with Mr. Johnson or Mrs. Smith concerning the payment, nor to please everyone I 'face' in a way I have to twist my own personality. From the background I am a journalist (whether this can pay my bills or not), so my idea of social sneaking & engineering is as Gemstar put it right to talk my way trough, supported by matrix data (both planted and gathered, both may involve hacking). The rest is a kind of networking attitude, get sources (contacts), get them to talk about sensitive information, often with time to prepare. This is why I didn't went for Tailored Pheromones. The other "tasks" may come unwillingly to me during shadowruns.
At this point I think I am bound to decking, as Technomancy is nice and these sprites are aweful, but I do like the cyberware, and the resulting essence loss is poison to any Resonance :(

I'm very happy for you mentioning narco! I looked it up and together with the information that addiction doesn't cancle out the positive effects it settles the deal for me. Maybe I swap two Mild Addictions (Psyche and Cram) for the Copper Allergy and "Did you just call me dump?". The latter fits in well, but I can role-play it too, without critical glitches.

I thinkered a bit with pushing Skills to A priority and decided for lowering attributes to C, as nuyen are tight considering all the 'ware and the approx. 150k for Cyberdeck and basic runner equipment. Shifting starting Karma to attributes too makes it looks like this now:

Attributes:
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* STR = 1 (2), right Cyberarm with STR 4 average
* AGI = 1 (4), right Cyberarm with AGI 8
* REA = 1 (4), down from 2 (5)
* BOD = 3, paid with 25 starting Karma
* LOG = 6 ( 8 )
* INT = 5 (6)
* CHA = 4, down from 5
* WIL = 5
* EDGE = 3

Limits: Physical (4), Mental (9), Social (7)

Active Skills
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* Cracking Group 6 (Hacking, Electronic Warfare, Cybercombat) - loosing 2 specializations, thus only 1 important, but can be worked around with Psyche and offers a development possibility on a core skill (hacking). Huge boost on cybercombat if I ever want to brick anything
* Computer 6 (Matrix perception)
* Hardware 1 (Jack out)
* Software 1 (Data bombs)
* Automatics 6 (Machine Pistol), nice +2 shooting dice thus I have to alter the background a bit like a basic military training during a couple of years to explain this
* Perception 1 (Visual)
* Con 6 (Fast Talk), beefy +5 in skill rating. First I was thinking of having this swapped with electronic warfare, now I can have both :)
* Gymnastics 6 (and a specialization yet to choose, is it possible to specialize in dodging bullets?), nice for dodging and B&E
* no Impersonation anymore, will have to buy with Karma post generation
* Influcence Group 4 (Leadership, Negotiation, Etiquette), all serious boosts
* Disguise 1, down from 4, just no defaulting necessary and disgues is an extended test, hopefully most time in a controlled preparation environment
* Palming 1 (and a specialization - can I specialize in hiding gear?), down from 5
* Locksmith 1 (Maglocks) or Forgery (paper forgery or false ID)
* Sneaking 6 (urban environment), up from 5

'Ware:
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* Datajack downgraded to Alphaware
* (added) Narco Gene Modification
* (removed) Muscle Augmentation 1, not necessary to get to STR (2) when counting the average STR from cyberarm

This leaves 3.900¥ more to play with (or to keep). Light reduction on contact loyality due to lesser CHA. Great development opportunities on specializations to the cracking group, rising the low physical attributes and adding cheap skills at rating 1 so I don't have to default on or can test at all (like Running, Swimming, any close combat skill, intimidation, locksmith or forgery (the other one), first aid, industrial mechanic and so on).

@Gemstar
Muscle Toner 3 vs. cyberarm is almost the same, considering the average AGI increase. I know there are MAD and cyberware scanners (hope I can hack them first!), but to dodge the first glance I took the synthetic version. The large smuggling compartment in it (either for a weapon, the deck or anything else to smuggle around) is for stealth reasons, too. Is there another reason, why you're suggesting to take the muscle toner instead of the arm?


Uh, sorry for the long text and all the side thoughts  8)
Some questions to round this up a bit:
a) Can I specialize Gymnastics in dodge? Or is it necessary at all considering the low physical limit?
b) Can I specialize Palming in hiding gear?
c) Can I add a silencer on a gun with gasvent (like the Ingram Smartgun is built)? Both are barrel options, but one could be mounted on the barrel, the other one internal, I don't know.
d) Regarding Sprites - can a sprite from a technomancer assist me in any situation? Maybe it's worth to shift a contact there (or to aim for a contact later) who can actively support me on matrix runs.

So long
- Jack

Marcus

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« Reply #10 on: <04-10-18/2345:29> »
Using Gymnastics to dodge is problematic as it kills your initiative and costly to action economy particularly on character like this that lacks any serous initiative increases. The best defensive method remains pushing Reaction+Intuition. But frankly this not a front line character so I would build for armor and back from combat as much as possible.

You use muscle toner b/c it increases your stealth score, while cyberarms primarily only increase your combat potential.

I would not go C stats. You lost to much, three 1 is just to low. It's easier to loss cash, your already using stat juggling build, you don't need a very advanced deck, swap to 5 and 5 for the skill groups and put them fully in decking, negotiation up to 6 and spec it. As it stands your to low. Con is good, but winning the cash roll is king.

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