Shadowrun

Catalyst Game Labs => Official Announcements => Topic started by: JM_Hardy on <04-27-11/1133:54>

Title: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: JM_Hardy on <04-27-11/1133:54>
We have a new PDF-only product out, and if you like adepts of any flavor, this is for you! The Way of the Adept presents new rules for adept Ways, giving you the opportunity to design themed adepts who can become more powerful through their discipline. It's part of the new Shadowrun Options line, presenting optional rules to let you customize your game as you like. It's available at the Battleshop (http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2753) and at Drivethru (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=91004). Here's the basic info:

LEARN THE WAYS OF POWER

Something is happening to the adepts of the Sixth World. They’re becoming stronger, faster—some of them are even becoming more charming. Studies indicate that the improvements are fixing on the most disciplined of adepts, those who integrate their abilities into the greater whole known as a Way. By following these Ways, adepts are reaching new levels of power.

The Way of the Adept is the first in the Shadowrun Options line of products. This line offers optional rules that can add new levels of fun to your Shadowrun game. The Way of the Adept presents fiction and in-character information to set the context for these optional rules, along with the information you need to develop characters who use their discipline to realize new strength.

The Way of the Adept is for use with Shadowrun, Twentieth Anniversary Edition.

Jason H.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: GeLrIrToCrH on <04-27-11/1257:11>
I would love to hear Critias' thoughts on this, as he seems to be quite the authority on adepts....
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Patrick Goodman on <04-27-11/1334:42>
Considering that Critias wrote it.... ;)
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: GeLrIrToCrH on <04-27-11/1358:06>
LOL...yea I started thinking about that after I posted....He probably wrote the whole damn thing  :P
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Grinder on <04-27-11/1441:55>
Is a similar book planned for cyberered characters aka street samurais?
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Patrick Goodman on <04-27-11/1443:08>
He did; that's Rusty's baby all the way through. I rather like it, and will probably be implementing it in my own games (if I ever get to have another game...).
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Critias on <04-27-11/1513:00>
I would love to hear Critias' thoughts on this, as he seems to be quite the authority on adepts....
I'm firmly of the opinion it's the greatest piece of Shadowrun material ever written, and that the writer of said sourcebook is the best looking writer in the history of the proression.  Priced at a measly $.33 per page, I believe it to be the greatest value available on the internet today, with cleverly repurposed artwork from classic Shadowrun books having been masterfully used to keep prices low.  I think it has the best fiction ever, and the perfect blend of drama, humor, and information in its Jackpoint chatter.  The rules are the rules an angel would sing to us if they flew low enough to grace us with their wisdom, and the...wait, hold on a sec.

Dammit, Goodman gave me away!   >:(
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: GeLrIrToCrH on <04-27-11/1525:54>
LOL  :) After reading Chase, Hop, and Angels, I now have a new found interest in adepts and definetly plan on picking this up. (Well, Angels wasn't really about adepts, but your fiction is fantastic!) I'm very excited to see what else comes out of this new line and I'm glad to see this starting the charge.... +2 to you Critias!
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Teyl_Iliar on <04-27-11/1546:58>
Thanks for the hard work Critias! :D I'm looking forward to the read.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Critias on <04-27-11/1600:58>
LOL  :) After reading Chase, Hop, and Angels, I now have a new found interest in adepts and definetly plan on picking this up. (Well, Angels wasn't really about adepts, but your fiction is fantastic!)
Chase is the only Adept outta those couple stories (and he's got a quick name-drop in Attitude, just as a quick aside), actually...but I'm glad you like 'em.   8)  Way of the Adept kicks off with a short piece of fiction, too, so you should enjoy it.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Digital_Viking on <04-27-11/1619:01>
Loved see the shout out to 1st Ed SR with Thorn posting - always loved Ourobouros!
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Frankie the Fomori on <04-27-11/1620:53>
Critias, great product thank you for adding your creativity to shadowrun. One question, does the Geas discount (optional rule) add to the discount for way of ability....so an adept could get improved Reflexes for 50% discount?
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Patrick Goodman on <04-27-11/1624:31>
You mean we didn't think about that when you were writing it and we were proofing it? It's always something, ain't it?

That said, it's an interesting question. Personally, I'd allow it as a GM, but I can be a real prick about geasa, so take that for what it's worth. Crit? what's your opinion?
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Critias on <04-27-11/1625:27>
Loved see the shout out to 1st Ed SR with Thorn posting - always loved Ourobouros!
Ourobouros has his own posting name, actually.  Hate to burst your bubble, but this is actually a new guy.  A new guy you'll be hearing more from in the not-so-distant future. 
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Frankie the Fomori on <04-27-11/1628:58>
yeah there has got to be one power gamer trying to wreck things lol....I have no PC that this would apply to....but i would put 10$ on it that it will come up in my game or maybe someone else’s....I am just getting the jump on things :)
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Critias on <04-27-11/1631:04>
Critias, great product thank you for adding your creativity to shadowrun. One question, does the Geas discount (optional rule) add to the discount for way of ability....so an adept could get improved Reflexes for 50% discount?
My intention here was to let GMs choose on their own -- but as they're both optional rules, my assumption (and how I'd run it, personally) is an either/or situation, not a both at once.  While I feel that one option or the other may be necessary for early/mid-game Adepts to match the versatility of a Street Sam, I think that both sets of optional rules, taken together, would likely get a little nuts.  I'm a big fan of that geasa rule (though like Patrick I'm also a stickler that folks pick a real geasa), but a large part of my intent with Way of the Adept was to offer a more characterful option, along with finally providing rules for Ways. 

There are individual powers (Improved Attribute compared to cyberware/bioware, I'm looking at you) where I think a 50% discount might not be broken...but there are others (lots of others) where I think getting a full half-off would be game breaking, especially as a game progressed, with the Adept getting more power points down the road. 

As always, though, talk to your GM and see what s/he thinks.  If your adept is lagging behind at the game table, talk it over, look into using both sets of options, and have at it.  When in doubt, sling some dice and have some fun.  In this instance though, personally, I'd suggest taking it one discount optional rule at a time, instead of jumping in headfirst and slashing prices in half.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Frankie the Fomori on <04-27-11/1636:28>
I like that, will work for every table. Thank you sir
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Digital_Viking on <04-27-11/1642:57>
Loved see the shout out to 1st Ed SR with Thorn posting - always loved Ourobouros!
Ourobouros has his own posting name, actually.  Hate to burst your bubble, but this is actually a new guy.  A new guy you'll be hearing more from in the not-so-distant future.

Actually meant Thorn from Tailchaser - had a brainfart ;)
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Crimsondude on <04-27-11/2027:18>
I'm a big fan of that geasa rule (though like Patrick I'm also a stickler that folks pick a real geasa)
So you wouldn't allow Looks Good In Shades: 6 as a form of Centering?

mfb will be heartbroken.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Critias on <04-27-11/2055:10>
For my (lucky?) 666th post, I'd just like to thank the Shadowrun fans for making a certain something the #1 hottest seller right now on DriveThruRPG.com:  http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/top_100.php (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/top_100.php)

You guys rock.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Digital_Viking on <04-27-11/2230:21>
For my (lucky?) 666th post, I'd just like to thank the Shadowrun fans for making a certain something the #1 hottest seller right now on DriveThruRPG.com:  http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/top_100.php (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/top_100.php)

You guys rock.

Mr. Critias - can I get my pdf autographed?  ;D
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: FastJack on <04-27-11/2234:19>
Good stuff, Critias!

(Of course, there's a typo. Kay St. Irregular was spelled Kat St. Irregular. But I'm not nitpicking... ;))
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Grinder on <04-28-11/0046:30>
Quote from: Wesley Street @ dumpshock
If this is going to be a trend, I'd like to see a future "Way of the Samurai" supplement with lower-BP builds for pre-constructed cyberware packages - Cyber Runner, Spec Forces Trooper, Cyber Assassin, The Six Million Nuyen Street Samurai, Cyber Logician, etc. Otherwise we're going to see further proof of this game falling prey to the "magic trumps all" mentality that's already infecting it.

This.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Crimsondude on <04-28-11/1339:35>
That.

Is fucking idiotic. Part of Critias' entire reasoning for this book is based on the objective fact that starting and low karma adepts are utterly neutered compared to street sams, especially compared to previous editions.

But, hey, shitting on stuff for the sake of it is a good plan, too. Then again, I don't recall Wesley bitching about "magic trumps all" that started way back with FanPro when he was contributing to SR. Funny that.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: grimjaws on <04-28-11/1356:43>
A very well done PDF. It came out just in time as I have been pondering making a weaponsmith adept (yes, drawing heavily from Earthdawn). So now the question is Artisan's or Artist's Way? I can see how both would work but have fairly different takes on the creation of items. Or possibly an ork actor Artist adept, hmm... the possibilities.*

I do have one question though. The Totem's Way, still confuses me. Is it just another flavor of Mystic Adept, following the more general split between Hermetic and Shamanic systems?

*I've played precious little of this edition that I'd still get a kick out of playing the typical ork and troll melee tank adepts (always enjoyed playing CC characters in other games).
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: FastJack on <04-28-11/1431:38>
A very well done PDF. It came out just in time as I have been pondering making a weaponsmith adept (yes, drawing heavily from Earthdawn). So now the question is Artisan's or Artist's Way? I can see how both would work but have fairly different takes on the creation of items. Or possibly an ork actor Artist adept, hmm... the possibilities.*
Well, as it says in the book, Artisans broke off from Artists when they declared that Function trumps Form. So, are you making the guns pretty or hardcore? ;)
I do have one question though. The Totem's Way, still confuses me. Is it just another flavor of Mystic Adept, following the more general split between Hermetic and Shamanic systems?

*I've played precious little of this edition that I'd still get a kick out of playing the typical ork and troll melee tank adepts (always enjoyed playing CC characters in other games).
Totem's way is basically another way to look at straight adepts. Where most adepts will claim their magic fuels their body simply through willpower and access to magic, Totem adepts call the boons "blessings" from their totems.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Digital_Viking on <04-28-11/1637:38>
That.

Is fucking idiotic. Part of Critias' entire reasoning for this book is based on the objective fact that starting and low karma adepts are utterly neutered compared to street sams, especially compared to previous editions.

But, hey, shitting on stuff for the sake of it is a good plan, too. Then again, I don't recall Wesley bitching about "magic trumps all" that started way back with FanPro when he was contributing to SR. Funny that.

Well said
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Critias on <04-28-11/1810:20>
A very well done PDF. It came out just in time as I have been pondering making a weaponsmith adept (yes, drawing heavily from Earthdawn). So now the question is Artisan's or Artist's Way? I can see how both would work but have fairly different takes on the creation of items.
Glad you like it!  For pure functionality, Artisan is the way to go.  If you wanna make 'em pretty (and still functional), Artist.  It's about mindset and prioritization as much as anything else.  Personally, I'd go Artisan.  They get more bonuses to the stuff you're likely to actually use with that sort of concept.

Quote
I do have one question though. The Totem's Way, still confuses me. Is it just another flavor of Mystic Adept, following the more general split between Hermetic and Shamanic systems?
Totem's Way Adepts are the ones who -- like Mi'Fan -- still have a "normal" suite of Adept powers (they aren't necessarily Mystic adepts), but who attribute that set as being a favor from a totem/mentor spirit. 

So instead of being an Invisible Way Adept, they're a Totem's Way who follows Rat, for instance.  They will function largely the same as any other Invisible Way follower (choosing that list of discounted powers), but will also have access to discounted powers that let them bond with animals and that sort of thing, and their metamagics help them connect with animals, too. 

It's for characters that want to stay kind of shamanic-feeling, but without having to only be good at acting like a D&D Druid or a Native American stereotype.  ;)  A Totem's Way follower of Wolf will still be a total badass, a follower of Horse can run like the wind, and a follower of Rat can be as sneaky a sum'bitch as anyone else...but they've also got the more animalistic options available to them, to flavor their character that way.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: CanRay on <04-28-11/1814:23>
Something tells me a follower of Bear would be a force to be reckoned with.

Damn having to wait until later to get this PDF.  I just got a shiny new printer too.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Critias on <04-28-11/2050:34>
Something tells me a follower of Bear would be a force to be reckoned with.
Regardless of what other bundles of powers they choose to discount (like a Bear adept working hard on being an excellent medic/doctor), Totem's Way followers do get access to the Berserk power at a discount.  I'm just sayin'.  ;)
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Grinder on <04-29-11/0414:59>
That.

Is fucking idiotic. Part of Critias' entire reasoning for this book is based on the objective fact that starting and low karma adepts are utterly neutered compared to street sams, especially compared to previous editions.

Nice how you try to understand the motivation behind such a request. But yeah, go on with advertising Adeptrun.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Critias on <04-29-11/0448:10>
That.

Is fucking idiotic. Part of Critias' entire reasoning for this book is based on the objective fact that starting and low karma adepts are utterly neutered compared to street sams, especially compared to previous editions.

Nice how you try to understand the motivation behind such a request. But yeah, go on with advertising Adeptrun.
Grinder, there's a world of difference between the request for a new book, and the backhanded way in which the request was made.  "AdeptRun" has been bandied about pretty much ever since the prices for the Adept Quality were first shown when SR4 hit shelves.  "Magic trumps all" is a far cry from "Adepts trump all," though, at least in my opinion.

Do me a favor, in fact, and take a look at the actual page count allocated to Adepts (not Mages).  I bet you'll be surprised just how little ink they get.  Find me the number of threads arguing about how overpowered Adepts (not Mages) are .  Find me all the qualities that lower the prices of Adept powers (the way Biocompatability or Type O System do for mundane gear), or the package deals and other options that let Adepts get more even as a starting character (the way Cyberware Suites or Alpha-Delta grade 'ware do).  Find me the last time someone asked for Adept build advice on either major Shadowrun forum and they weren't imemdiately told to suck it up and get some cyberware or bioware because it was cheaper, easier, and more effective than the magical alternative.  Find me any characters that got hit harder by the change in attribute increase costs when SR4A hit (because now it wasn't just harder for Adepts to spend Karma and increase their stats the old fashioned way, it was much more expensive to increase Magic and try to increase their stats through their powers).

Compared to the amazing versatility and potential of full-on spellcasters (which is probably the number one complaint about the current state of the game) and the out-of-the-box versatility and ability of well-crafted mundane characters, Adepts -- Pornomancer silliness aside -- have really kind of been the redheaded stepchildren of SR4A, in my opinion.

So here's a book entirely full of optional rules (which means we're certainly not cramming them down anyone's throat or fundamentally changing the nature of the game universe) that tries to rectify that, inasmuch as that's possible to do in less than 15 pages.  The sad thing, to me, is that this 15 pages pretty much doubles the page count you'll find dedicated to Adepts (seriously, just go check the index in SR4A).

Now, you may not agree.  You may not think Adepts need the help, you might have them completely overrunning your local gaming meta-scene, you might have 'em coming out your ears and think they're overpowered, and that's just fine!  That's why these are entirely optional rules, so no one's gonna hold a gun to your head and force you or anyone you play with to use 'em.

You don't have to like the book.  I wish people would, but I understand that it is, like any product, not for everyone and not everyone is gonna like it.  I do wish people would at least give it a shot, though, instead of just rolling their eyes and complaining about "AdeptRun" when, in my opinion and the opinion of quite a few other people, SR4 has been anything but
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: John Schmidt on <04-29-11/0957:41>
@Crimsondude: Let us take a deep breath, count to ten and relax.

@Grinder: For those of us who intentionally avoid Dumpshock, like the plague, having select bits from there reposted on this forum is not going to garner our love and adulation. And if it persists...may be deemed by myself to be trolling.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: savaze on <04-29-11/1134:12>
Great you made me break my no buying pdf-only rule... It was worth it!
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: CanRay on <04-29-11/1142:05>
I said "Screw the budget" and got it, gave it a quick read.  So far, nothing I see is too over-powered and does give some meat to Adepts.  I still don't see how this product is going to turn the game into "AdeptRun" like some people fear, however.  But that's just me, I'm a ROLE player.  I make characters for "Rule Of Cool" rather than to try and "Win The Game", which is where I feel a lot of the hate seems to come from.  (I could be honestly mistaken.  WOW!  Someone who will admit that on the INTERNET!  It's a sign of the apocalypse for sure!).

Anything that adds options is a good thing in my mind, it gives more character to the storyline, more flavour, more life.  The problems happen when there's contradiction of things, but Shadowrun is one of the few products where that's actually built into the universe itself.  (Remember:  All the posts and comments are made IN CHARACTER which means that they can be quite badly off.).

Rules-wise, I'll have to read it more in depth.  That's always been a bit harder for me, despite putting on the GM hat.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: grimjaws on <04-29-11/1152:36>
Thanks Critias and FastJack for the clarification, apparently I was just having one of those moments in understanding.

Something tells me a follower of Bear would be a force to be reckoned with.
Regardless of what other bundles of powers they choose to discount (like a Bear adept working hard on being an excellent medic/doctor), Totem's Way followers do get access to the Berserk power at a discount.  I'm just sayin'.  ;)
This is exactly where I first went with a character idea, not your typical magic band-aid.  ;D
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Makki on <04-29-11/1208:31>
for clarification:
I can still put geas(a) on these powers to get an effective 50% discount?
it's nowhere in the pdf, so I guess it's stackable. and usually we add the discounts together rather than multiplying one after another...
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Grinder on <04-29-11/1228:39>
@Grinder: For those of us who intentionally avoid Dumpshock, like the plague, having select bits from there reposted on this forum is not going to garner our love and adulation. And if it persists...may be deemed by myself to be trolling.

Wasn't meant to be trolling, I apologize if I gave the impression. Wesley's words just matched my thoughts on the matter exactly, that's why i quoted him.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Grinder on <04-29-11/1234:43>
Grinder, there's a world of difference between the request for a new book, and the backhanded way in which the request was made.  "AdeptRun" has been bandied about pretty much ever since the prices for the Adept Quality were first shown when SR4 hit shelves.  "Magic trumps all" is a far cry from "Adepts trump all," though, at least in my opinion.

Do me a favor, in fact, and take a look at the actual page count allocated to Adepts (not Mages).  I bet you'll be surprised just how little ink they get.  Find me the number of threads arguing about how overpowered Adepts (not Mages) are .  Find me all the qualities that lower the prices of Adept powers (the way Biocompatability or Type O System do for mundane gear), or the package deals and other options that let Adepts get more even as a starting character (the way Cyberware Suites or Alpha-Delta grade 'ware do).  Find me the last time someone asked for Adept build advice on either major Shadowrun forum and they weren't imemdiately told to suck it up and get some cyberware or bioware because it was cheaper, easier, and more effective than the magical alternative.  Find me any characters that got hit harder by the change in attribute increase costs when SR4A hit (because now it wasn't just harder for Adepts to spend Karma and increase their stats the old fashioned way, it was much more expensive to increase Magic and try to increase their stats through their powers).

Compared to the amazing versatility and potential of full-on spellcasters (which is probably the number one complaint about the current state of the game) and the out-of-the-box versatility and ability of well-crafted mundane characters, Adepts -- Pornomancer silliness aside -- have really kind of been the redheaded stepchildren of SR4A, in my opinion.

So here's a book entirely full of optional rules (which means we're certainly not cramming them down anyone's throat or fundamentally changing the nature of the game universe) that tries to rectify that, inasmuch as that's possible to do in less than 15 pages.  The sad thing, to me, is that this 15 pages pretty much doubles the page count you'll find dedicated to Adepts (seriously, just go check the index in SR4A).

Now, you may not agree.  You may not think Adepts need the help, you might have them completely overrunning your local gaming meta-scene, you might have 'em coming out your ears and think they're overpowered, and that's just fine!  That's why these are entirely optional rules, so no one's gonna hold a gun to your head and force you or anyone you play with to use 'em.

You don't have to like the book.  I wish people would, but I understand that it is, like any product, not for everyone and not everyone is gonna like it.  I do wish people would at least give it a shot, though, instead of just rolling their eyes and complaining about "AdeptRun" when, in my opinion and the opinion of quite a few other people, SR4 has been anything but.

Well, I see where you are coming from and I don't think that Adepts Way introduces many shitty rules (or any at all9, but I dislike the impression it gives: that of power creep and "spend $5 to gain the latest power update to your class". If that's the path CGL wants to walk it's ok, but I would love to see a similar book that updates and improves the options available to cybered characters. That's all I want.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: CanRay on <04-29-11/1249:06>
It could be worse.

We could have to buy booster packs of random cards in order to get spells, adept abilities, cybernetics, and so on...  Supplemental books for increased options for characters have been around for a long time.  At full price.

I'm trying to remember the one they had for power-creep back in the day.  Oh, right:  The Street Samurai Catalog.  :P

Of course, I'm sure people were complaining about having to buy the book to get the items inside of it back then too.  ;)
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Mystic on <04-29-11/1303:23>
Totem's way is basically another way to look at straight adepts. Where most adepts will claim their magic fuels their body simply through willpower and access to magic, Totem adepts call the boons "blessings" from their totems.

Sooooo, without having read the thing...yet *grin*, so I could technically take "Wise Warrior" as a totem for a Phys Ad??? 

And also, OK, I like the idea for this. The Physical Adept has been my favorite for a long time, but I have found you have to be VERY careful when playing them. More than once I've been steamrolled by a decked out sammy because it was easier for them to simply load up with cyber/bio. And I HATE the idea of having to, in my opinion, mix magic and select cyber. For me it kills the point of being an adept, especially a physical adept. And it can be frusturating to compete when you have to spend lots of karma on magic just to get a small bonus or power when all a sammy has to do is spend cash and use their karma on skills, attributes, etc. or get the same thing.

But hey, a suppliment for Sammys can be fun too, anything that adds a new dimention or flavor to the game is a good thing.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: John Schmidt on <04-29-11/1308:47>
@Grinder: For those of us who intentionally avoid Dumpshock, like the plague, having select bits from there reposted on this forum is not going to garner our love and adulation. And if it persists...may be deemed by myself to be trolling.

Wasn't meant to be trolling, I apologize if I gave the impression. Wesley's words just matched my thoughts on the matter exactly, that's why i quoted him.

Thank you for clarifying that.  :)
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: CanRay on <04-29-11/1311:37>
Sammis, Deckers (Sorry, Hackers), Magicians, Faces, Gun Bunnies, and so on...  All options are available and open now!  We just need them written.

The part I really like about the PDF-Published items like this is, despite the fact that you have to buy "So many new items" is the fact that you can gauge your purchases better for your group!

Your group never has any Adepts, fine, don't buy "Way of the Adept".  Never uses drones, don't buy "This Old Drone".  And so on.  It certainly beats having to buy a whole sourcebook for one part that your group actually wants, and the rest just goes to waste and is never read by anyone but the book's purchaser, and that only once.

Of course, I'm insane and have a laser printer (A new one, that does Duplex Printing!   ;D ), so I can easily pump out PDF into Dead Tree Format in binders at a reasonable price.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: John Schmidt on <04-29-11/1316:04>
Of course, I'm sure people were complaining about having to buy the book to get the items inside of it back then too.  ;)

I for one really liked the Street Samurai Catalog.  :)

The question in my mind is it power creep or broadening the possibilities for players?

As for the magic trumps all view...I know one player who feels that 4th boned the magic users. It comes down to perceptions and expectations I guess.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: John Schmidt on <04-29-11/1322:56>
The part I really like about the PDF-Published items like this is, despite the fact that you have to buy "So many new items" is the fact that you can gauge your purchases better for your group!

PDF's have become a favorite format for me. I can search through all of them quickly. Carrying them around is a breeze. Most importantly, I feel that the game industry has returned to it's origins...a cottage industry. There are more games available now than at any other time I can remember, some are less than great but others are innovative and truly impressive. Game companies can produce product quicker with a faster return on their investment for less outlay of cash and consumers have more options.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Mäx on <04-29-11/1354:53>
for clarification:
I can still put geas(a) on these powers to get an effective 50% discount?
it's nowhere in the pdf, so I guess it's stackable. and usually we add the discounts together rather than multiplying one after another...
Your GM must deside how it works, if he allows you to use that optional rule along with the adept way optional rule.
But adding the discounts together is how it's mostly handelt in the system with other discounts.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: FastJack on <04-29-11/1447:55>
It could be worse.

We could have to buy booster packs of random cards in order to get spells, adept abilities, cybernetics, and so on...  Supplemental books for increased options for characters have been around for a long time.  At full price.

I'm trying to remember the one they had for power-creep back in the day.  Oh, right:  The Street Samurai Catalog.  :P

Of course, I'm sure people were complaining about having to buy the book to get the items inside of it back then too.  ;)
Ahh... the good ol' days with Neon Samurai* and crew.

*+1 to those** that get the reference

**Except the freelancers. You should get those. ;)
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: CanRay on <04-29-11/1556:12>
Did he ever reveal his evidence?
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Critias on <04-29-11/1727:57>
for clarification:
I can still put geas(a) on these powers to get an effective 50% discount?
it's nowhere in the pdf, so I guess it's stackable. and usually we add the discounts together rather than multiplying one after another...
If your GM lets you use both, then yes they'd be stackable (like most discounts) -- but remember that, as these are optional rules and the Adept Geasa is an optional rule, it's up to your GM even more than normal.  So, I dunno, ask him twice, or something, and make sure he knows what he's getting into if he says yes.  Don't be "that guy" who tricks a GM into using optional rules and creates a monster and ruins it for everybody.  ;)
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: CanRay on <04-29-11/1847:21>
Some GM's accept bribes.  Some even admit it.

My personal favorite come in the form of gift certificates for my FLGS, as they can also be used for Army Surplus and Knives.

...

Which is probably why my group goes for the alternatives.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Bull on <04-29-11/2345:57>
Now, the question is...  if you use both the Option and Geas, do you add them, or do you take the % reduction on after the other.  Because there's a difference there ;)

A 1 point power with both reductions added is .5, of course.  But if you take 25% off, then 25% off again, you end up with it costing .5625 :)

That said, as stated above, both are Optional rules.  As such, it's up to the GM whether to allow them, whether or not they stack, and how to apply the discount :)

Bull
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: FastJack on <04-30-11/0052:32>
Now, the question is...  if you use both the Option and Geas, do you add them, or do you take the % reduction on after the other.  Because there's a difference there ;)

A 1 point power with both reductions added is .5, of course.  But if you take 25% off, then 25% off again, you end up with it costing .5625 :)

That said, as stated above, both are Optional rules.  As such, it's up to the GM whether to allow them, whether or not they stack, and how to apply the discount :)

Bull
Well, looking at the stuff for Cyberware (delta plus the qualities that lower cost), I'd add the percentages together, then base the cost off that. So, I'd go with the 50% off rule.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Kot on <04-30-11/0355:37>
So, It's basically The Adept's Way for Shadowrun? I really really hope the Discipline-spinoff is done well.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Mäx on <04-30-11/0418:18>
Now, the question is...  if you use both the Option and Geas, do you add them, or do you take the % reduction on after the other.  Because there's a difference there ;)

A 1 point power with both reductions added is .5, of course.  But if you take 25% off, then 25% off again, you end up with it costing .5625 :)
I would efinedly go with the adding them together option, it might be bad math(as some people over at dumpshock are fond of pointing out), but it produces a hella lot simpler numbers and if you as a GM allow someone to use both of those optional rules for same power, then you have no room(IMHO) for saying that it's OP if its ad up to 50% reduction instead of 43,somethink% reduction.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: FastJack on <04-30-11/1317:11>
So, It's basically The Adept's Way for Shadowrun? I really really hope the Discipline-spinoff is done well.
It's definitely too short (I'd have liked them to have done a full "chapter" on each Path/Discipline), but it has good information and the rules do make it easier for Adepts to keep up with the Sammies.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Critias on <05-03-11/0609:32>
So, It's basically The Adept's Way for Shadowrun? I really really hope the Discipline-spinoff is done well.
It's definitely too short (I'd have liked them to have done a full "chapter" on each Path/Discipline), but it has good information and the rules do make it easier for Adepts to keep up with the Sammies.
This puppy was my first project pitch to The Powers That Be, and the ball got rolling on this e-book back before I'd even gotten anything else officially written (as part of a normal sourcebook, not my own pet project).  If I thought I'd had a chance in hell of talking 'em into letting me do a book that size, trust me, I would have loved to! 

As it was I formally pitched 'em a 5,000 word product last year, and ended up going to over 8,000 after some playest revisions (that I used as an excuse to double the IC sections, shadowtalk and all).  If I thought I could've gotten away with writing more, I would'a tried it, but I felt like I was already pushing my luck.   ;D
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Critias on <07-10-11/1658:28>
Just a little bump, with two quick announcements:

1)  The Way of the Adept hit gold on drivethrurpg.com the other day, which is awesome.  Thanks, everybody.  Spurred on by that, I felt like doing...

2)  I put together a little FAQ/errata for this puppy, compiling some of the discussions I've had with fans here and on DS and elsewhere.  There's a link in my signature, to the little google doc I threw together for it.  Hopefully this'll help people enjoy the book a little more, and give some insight on how some things fell together (without them having to read page after page of various forums).  Enjoy!
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Crimsondude on <07-10-11/1734:18>
Yay!
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Critias on <07-11-11/1515:18>
And, just an FYI for everyone, but if there's still any questions about Way of the Adept, anything I'm still leaving unclear even in the FAQ-rata, or whatever, please feel free to PM me or something.  It's a work in progress, and I'll be updating it if/when future questions arise.

I want my stuff to be awesome to read and easy to use, for my fellow Shadowrun fans.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Tsuzua on <07-11-11/1624:08>
And, just an FYI for everyone, but if there's still any questions about Way of the Adept, anything I'm still leaving unclear even in the FAQ-rata, or whatever, please feel free to PM me or something.  It's a work in progress, and I'll be updating it if/when future questions arise.

I want my stuff to be awesome to read and easy to use, for my fellow Shadowrun fans.

I don't have anything to add to that section since sadly I play mainly missions games.  But I wanted to say nice job! 

On a related note, what are the future planned Options? 
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Critias on <07-11-11/1628:01>
On a related note, what are the future planned Options?
That's up to Mr. JM Hardy, Shadowrun line dev.  I suspect he may have some ideas about that to toss around during a few meetings and panels and stuff at Gencon, only time will tell.   ;)
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: CanRay on <07-11-11/1635:29>
I think there's something about neck punching and novels and him.

But that might be me putting words in his mouth.  :P
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Kylen on <07-20-11/2212:05>
I'm not gonna call anyone out. I have just two things to say:

1: This has inspired me to actually  play an Adept instead of a non-cybered mundane. Thanks!

2: How was Augmented NOT Ways of the Adept for Cybers? Do they REALLY need more options? (Yeah, I know I'm probably repeating, but neh, feel the need to get it out there)
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Critias on <07-20-11/2229:58>
1: This has inspired me to actually  play an Adept instead of a non-cybered mundane. Thanks!
Awesome!  I'm glad you enjoyed the book, and hope you get lots of mileage (and karma) out of your character.  Sling some dice and shoot/kick//drive/ambush/fast-talk people right in their face, for me!
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Onion Man on <07-20-11/2308:41>
1: This has inspired me to actually  play an Adept instead of a non-cybered mundane. Thanks!
Awesome!  I'm glad you enjoyed the book, and hope you get lots of mileage (and karma) out of your character.  Sling some dice and shoot/kick//drive/ambush/fast-talk people right in their face, for me!
I've got one of the players in my group, a cyber-adept, all excited about retooling as a Burnout Way adept.

Unfortunately my next character is a technomancer, but it's going into a group with too many awakened characters already.  We light up like a signal fire any time someone is perceiving astrally already.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: CanRay on <07-21-11/0228:34>
Wish this document had come out before I wrote Nas.  He'd have made an excellent adept wheelman.

Oh well.  Still a good read and worth the cost!  ;D
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Critias on <07-21-11/0245:53>
Wish this document had come out before I wrote Nas.  He'd have made an excellent adept wheelman.

Oh well.  Still a good read and worth the cost!  ;D
Glad you enjoyed it, Can.  Any chance of talking to your GM and asking him to let you pick up Artisan's Way or something?  It should only run ya about 20 karma, and most GMs will let folks go "in debt" (and just have all earned karma go to paying it off), when a new book or something comes out.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: CanRay on <07-21-11/0334:37>
Nas is a character I write. (http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=2964.0)

I have no GM.  I have never played Shadowrun, despite wanting to since '92.  I've only run a few campaigns that fell apart.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Mystic on <07-21-11/0515:16>
Wish this document had come out before I wrote Nas.  He'd have made an excellent adept wheelman.

Oh well.  Still a good read and worth the cost!  ;D

Well, if he is something you write, nothing wrong with a little retcon, ne? Heck, with the ebbs and flows to magic/mana/juju/mojo in the SR universe, it's possible that after significant development that a "WOW I feel a LOT better!" isn't out of the question. If I was 'da GM, I'd say "SURE!" But then, its not like I have a bias towards adepts...not at all...nope....hardly any....nada.

 8)
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Grinder on <07-21-11/0541:20>
Why is the formatting in this thread so totally off?
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: CanRay on <07-21-11/1022:49>
The forum has been sick...
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Bull on <07-21-11/1109:59>
Why is the formatting in this thread so totally off?

There was a forum upgrade that borked many of the themes. 
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Stahlseele on <07-21-11/1314:31>
Why is the formatting in this thread so totally off?

There was a forum upgrade that borked many of the themes.
"Don't fuck with a working system" < = every last TechSupportGuy ever.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Critias on <07-21-11/1445:01>
Nas is a character I write. (http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=2964.0)

I have no GM.  I have never played Shadowrun, despite wanting to since '92.  I've only run a few campaigns that fell apart.
Time to retcon in a little Latent Awakening then, huh?   ;)
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: CanRay on <07-21-11/1659:41>
Nas is a character I write. (http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=2964.0)

I have no GM.  I have never played Shadowrun, despite wanting to since '92.  I've only run a few campaigns that fell apart.
Time to retcon in a little Latent Awakening then, huh?   ;)
Considering the amount of Essence Hit he's taken (He's had some mods done since his last story.), it's not likely he would be able to get any magic at all.  :(

As well, his initial cybernetics were required to...  Well, read the story to find out why things happened the way they did.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Grinder on <07-22-11/0636:59>
Why is the formatting in this thread so totally off?

There was a forum upgrade that borked many of the themes. 

Someone is working hard to get it fixed, yes? YES? :D
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: FastJack on <07-22-11/0727:17>
Why is the formatting in this thread so totally off?

There was a forum upgrade that borked many of the themes. 

Someone is working hard to get it fixed, yes? YES? :D
I created the FastJack theme, so it was up to me to update it. The other themes were created by other SMF users and posted to the themes page, so you'd have to track them down and ask them to update them.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Grinder on <07-22-11/1347:28>
DIdn't know it is a theme-related issue. Just changed the theme and everyting's fine again. :)
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Mystic on <07-25-11/0424:56>
Just finally got a chance to get this and read through.

*thumbs up*

Only thing I can say, and all that I think needs to be said, is that I think this should go from an optional rule to standard rule, PERIOD. 'Nuff said. 
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Critias on <07-25-11/1613:50>
Just finally got a chance to get this and read through.

*thumbs up*

Only thing I can say, and all that I think needs to be said, is that I think this should go from an optional rule to standard rule, PERIOD. 'Nuff said.
Thank you, Mystic.  I'm glad you're enjoying it, and I hope the adepts at your table get some mileage out of it. 
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Mystic on <07-25-11/1820:58>
Myself and one other at my table who also favors adepts already have. It's good to be the GM.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Katrex on <11-28-11/2208:16>
I think it's definately a step in the right direction, but I think it misses the mark slightly at least from a balancing perspective.

Adepts shouldn't be atractive because you can get them 3ip's without restricted gear, and they shouldn't be unatractive because your combat stats are never going to be on par.

Because that's all way of the adept does, reduces improved reflexes from 4bp to 3 bp.

It should really be the otherway round, keep +3 Ip's at 4pp, ecourage starting with only +2ip's like street sammys, and make stats increases work above the natural maximum without costing double.

Then you end up having a combat charecter with 5 magic with 3ips, +3 agi, and nimble fingers, giving him a healthy dice pool of 18ish with scope for improvment through play. Which is competative with scope to improve, but not over powered for 45 bp, when a street sammy can do it for 18bp with almost no room to improve.

And that's fine. the street sammy is more versatile, and the adept can specialise to be the BEST at one thing.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: CanRay on <11-28-11/2210:51>
Adept also won't set off every metal detector just walking around naked.

...

What?
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Mäx on <11-29-11/1545:34>
Because that's all way of the adept does, reduces improved reflexes from 4bp to 3 bp.

It should really be the otherway round, keep +3 Ip's at 4pp, ecourage starting with only +2ip's like street sammys,.
I would think having more then 1PP for other power is more then good incentive to start with "only" 3IP:s, especially as there are very few incentives to actually have 4IP:s.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Critias on <11-30-11/1541:58>
Because that's all way of the adept does, reduces improved reflexes from 4bp to 3 bp.
I'm sorry you feel that way.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Mirikon on <11-30-11/1552:08>
I haven't used anything from Way of the Adept yet, but it has some great fluff in there. Now I'm waiting on similar products for magicians and technomancers.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: nakano on <11-30-11/1635:56>
Currently I have had players use Artisan's Way, Speakers Way, Warrior's Way, and Invisible Way.  I have used NPCs on the Artist's Way as well.

Honestly the book is one of my favorites. 

And I am also waiting for similar books to launch. 
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Critias on <11-30-11/1649:48>
I can tell you that there is (at least) one more Way Of the ... book in the works, that I know of.  Or, at least, I think I can (without it counting as an NDA violation). 
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Wolfboy on <12-04-11/1817:47>
dont try dude, i've tried to talk my way around NDA's and its not worth the effort
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Mäx on <12-07-11/1454:02>
I can tell you that there is (at least) one more Way Of the ... book in the works, that I know of.  Or, at least, I think I can (without it counting as an NDA violation).
I'm pretty sure Jason has said the same think, so you should be save ;)
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Critias on <12-07-11/1501:38>
I can tell you that there is (at least) one more Way Of the ... book in the works, that I know of.  Or, at least, I think I can (without it counting as an NDA violation).
I'm pretty sure Jason has said the same think, so you should be save ;)
Yeah, that tends to be my earmark.  "Jason said more Way of _____ books are coming," and "Jason said there's fiction in the works," and that sort of thing.  I figure once he says it, I'm fair game to disseminate the information, or play parrot, or what-have-you.

But anyways, yeah.  There's at least one other Way of book, that I know of, being worked on.  Two, I think, but one I know of for quite certain.
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Henker on <01-15-12/0914:25>
It is a GM decision to choose what he wants to have in his game, but I definitely like "way of the adept".
From my point of view however it is more a book to be used by a GM to introduce new misteries or "ways" to his players who play physical adepts.
 
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: JustADude on <01-15-12/0921:27>
It is a GM decision to choose what he wants to have in his game, but I definitely like "way of the adept".

Speaking of GM decisions... is WotA legal for Missions?
Title: Re: The Way of the Adept kicks off Shadowrun Options line
Post by: Critias on <01-15-12/1045:16>
It is a GM decision to choose what he wants to have in his game, but I definitely like "way of the adept".

Speaking of GM decisions... is WotA legal for Missions?
Unfortunately, no.  As part of the Shadowrun Options line (even as, currently, the only part of said line) it's a set of optional rules, and as such it's currently not allowed for Missions games. 

When I stat up Missions NPCs I still like to add some (optional) stats for them if they happen to be adepts, but that's just because I like the rules and want to have 'em there for folks that might use 'em in a home game.