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How Can Immortal Elves Get Drunk?

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RowanTheFox

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« on: <07-15-16/0259:36> »
Ok, so it's common knowledge that Immortal Elves are immune to toxins and poisons. It's also pretty well known (or at least I'd hope so) that alcohol is a poison, albeit a mild one, so how the FRAG is Harlequin able to get drunk? My theory is that he only acts drunk for the fun of it. Since the alcohol would still be in his system, it would show up on a breathalyzer. So, as long as he keeps up the act, he's certifiably drunk.

On a related note, thanks to my previous job as a medication assistant for a dementia home, I know that pretty much all sedatives, paralytics, and anesthetics wouldn't work on an Immortal Elf either, since those are really nothing more than low dose poisons (Succinylcholine is a perfect example). So in theory an Immortal wouldn't be able to be sedated or anesthetized without the help of magic. Which can really suck if there's no other mage around with a stabilize and heal spell handy.

I actually play with both theories in the fan-fics I'm working on, but I wanted to get some other opinions.
It is better to be crazy and know it, than to be sane and have one's doubts.

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Remember, you're only a genius when they need you. The rest of the time you're just an asshole.

Well, drek. Looks like Timmy fell into the Dissonance Well again.

Reaver

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  • 60% alcohol 40% asshole...
« Reply #1 on: <07-15-16/0515:03> »
Quote
  Page 397/398 CRB
Immunity
Type: P Action: Auto
Range: Self Duration: Always
A critter with Immunity has an enhanced resistance
to a certain type of attack or affliction. Effectively, the
critter has a Hardened Armor rating equal to twice its
Essence against that particular kind of damage (see
Hardened Armor, p. 397). This means that if the modified
Damage Value of the attack does not exceed the
Immunity’s rating, then the attack automatically does
no damage. If the modified DV exceeds the Immunity
rating, perform a Damage Resistance test as normal,
adding the Immunity rating to the dice pool for this test.
Additionally, half (rounded up) of the Immunity rating
counts as automatic hits on this test.
Some Immunities function slightly differently, because
the attack they protect against doesn’t do damage,
per se.

So, immunity in 5e isn't an automatic thing, If an immortal Elf drank a strong enough alcohol, in theory, he could become drunk.... (that same drink would probably kill someone else, but hey... Immunity!)

Other then that, writers are allowed to take certain.... freedoms when telling a story that doesn't always mesh with the 'rules' established by the books.

For example the dragon that was killed with a light machine gun.... by the rules of the time, those rounds should have splattered harmlessly off its scales, not turned it into swiss cheese....
Other examples from books:

Teleportation (a very strict 'No-No' since the start of the game!)
Raising a dead runner (an other strict no-no... but this one is debatable, depending on what you think actually came back...)
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #2 on: <07-15-16/0542:24> »
To be fair, the "light machine gun" that took out Haesslich was a Vindicator mini-gun with armor piercing rounds, if memory serves. And the lore is ambiguous as to his true end; something big was recovered by United Oil out of the Sound, but the corpse was never officially found ;)

As for getting drunk, I wouldn't be surprised if someone like Harlequin could get at least a little buzz going with enough 96% pure alcohol; I can't remember if it was in Storm Front or some other book where he essentially goes on a drunken rampage, and that seems like it would be an odd thing to fake. Then again, it is Harlequin we're talking about, so anything is possible.

Reaver

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« Reply #3 on: <07-15-16/0846:19> »
Yes it was a minigun. But by the rules of that edition, it still would have done NO damage because the damage number (before you applied the 'D' coding) was still less then an adult dragon's armor value after the APDS adjustment....


But it made for a 'cool scene' in the book so......
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Coyote

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« Reply #4 on: <07-15-16/0949:55> »
How would Immunity (Toxins) interact with drug use? The fact that a creature that is "immune" to something can still be affected by strong enough application of that something implies that you could have a creature that is Immune to Toxins still get affected by drugs (good or bad). But the best I can figure out is to house rule it.... either have each point of Essence require an additional dose, or treat each point as a double-value Nephritic Screen so that it lowers the duration. I would go with double value since each point of Hardened Armor is more effective than each point of normal armor, so each point of Immunity should be stronger than each point of Nephritic Screen.

But, is there anything else in the rules that might make me able to figure out how to combine drugs and Immune (Toxins) without having to completely house rule it?

Note that the Detox spell removes drug effects at Force 1 and with just 1 success, while it has to cast more strongly in order to affect actual damage or Toxins with a rated strength, so there is a bit of a disconnect between how drug are neutralized versus how toxins are neutralized. I'm not sure if that has any relevance, and I'm considering requiring the use of Detox at a Force equal to the Addiction Rating of a drug in order to neutralize it. But that's yet another house rule.

RowanTheFox

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« Reply #5 on: <07-15-16/1130:06> »
How would Immunity (Toxins) interact with drug use? The fact that a creature that is "immune" to something can still be affected by strong enough application of that something implies that you could have a creature that is Immune to Toxins still get affected by drugs (good or bad). But the best I can figure out is to house rule it.... either have each point of Essence require an additional dose, or treat each point as a double-value Nephritic Screen so that it lowers the duration. I would go with double value since each point of Hardened Armor is more effective than each point of normal armor, so each point of Immunity should be stronger than each point of Nephritic Screen.

But, is there anything else in the rules that might make me able to figure out how to combine drugs and Immune (Toxins) without having to completely house rule it?

Note that the Detox spell removes drug effects at Force 1 and with just 1 success, while it has to cast more strongly in order to affect actual damage or Toxins with a rated strength, so there is a bit of a disconnect between how drug are neutralized versus how toxins are neutralized. I'm not sure if that has any relevance, and I'm considering requiring the use of Detox at a Force equal to the Addiction Rating of a drug in order to neutralize it. But that's yet another house rule.

There are actually quite a few drugs that would affect them, since they aren't toxins, but a lot of drugs used in trauma surgery absolutely are poisonous. The effects just happen to be useful in strictly controlled doses. They could still use most OTC meds and herbal medicines. Like Tylenol for a headache, or chamomile and peppermint tea when they can't sleep.
It is better to be crazy and know it, than to be sane and have one's doubts.

"Nothing is wrong if no one can stop you."

Remember, you're only a genius when they need you. The rest of the time you're just an asshole.

Well, drek. Looks like Timmy fell into the Dissonance Well again.

Nath

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« Reply #6 on: <07-15-16/1731:54> »
In fourth and fifth editions, Immunity is a critter power that grants Essencex2 as an Hardened Armor against an attack or affliction that deals damage (except for Immunity to Age) ; Natural Immunity is a quality that make a character effectively immune "to a single disease or toxin" or one "disease, drug, or poison". Note that the actual "Toxins" header in the rules is separate from the "Drugs and brainbenders" or "Drugs and BTL".

At no point does Shadowrun addresses the frontier between characters and critters (dragons for instance have skills listed above the maximum rating for skills that supposedly apply to all characters), and whether immortal elves ought to be treated as characters, critters, or both, and which immunity they should get.

Harlequin stats as published in Street Legends Supplemental listed "Immunity (Age, Disease, Pathogens, Toxins)" - on the other hand, Lugh Surehand stats in Street Legends has none of those (not even age!).

As far as the rules go, the Immunity critter power only applies when there is a Damage Value. "Toxins" require a Toxin Resistance against Power, instead of a DV. Only for some toxins does it translate into stun or physical damage. "Drugs" have none of those, and as far as I remember the one that can actual deal damage do so unresisted.

RowanTheFox

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« Reply #7 on: <07-15-16/2029:15> »
In fourth and fifth editions, Immunity is a critter power that grants Essencex2 as an Hardened Armor against an attack or affliction that deals damage (except for Immunity to Age) ; Natural Immunity is a quality that make a character effectively immune "to a single disease or toxin" or one "disease, drug, or poison". Note that the actual "Toxins" header in the rules is separate from the "Drugs and brainbenders" or "Drugs and BTL".

At no point does Shadowrun addresses the frontier between characters and critters (dragons for instance have skills listed above the maximum rating for skills that supposedly apply to all characters), and whether immortal elves ought to be treated as characters, critters, or both, and which immunity they should get.

Harlequin stats as published in Street Legends Supplemental listed "Immunity (Age, Disease, Pathogens, Toxins)" - on the other hand, Lugh Surehand stats in Street Legends has none of those (not even age!).

As far as the rules go, the Immunity critter power only applies when there is a Damage Value. "Toxins" require a Toxin Resistance against Power, instead of a DV. Only for some toxins does it translate into stun or physical damage. "Drugs" have none of those, and as far as I remember the one that can actual deal damage do so unresisted.

Ok, I think I understand now. I still feel that Harlequin would have to drink a LOT more alcohol, or at least a much stronger alcohol in order to get feel intoxicated. He's actually drinking bourbon in the second story I'm working on. Well, he WAS, until someone shot the bottle out of his hand.

As far as the drug efficacy thing goes...Whether Maisie's (main character) resistance to sedatives is an inborn trait, or simply due to the absurd amount of adrenaline and cortisol pumping through her system at the time is up for debate.
It is better to be crazy and know it, than to be sane and have one's doubts.

"Nothing is wrong if no one can stop you."

Remember, you're only a genius when they need you. The rest of the time you're just an asshole.

Well, drek. Looks like Timmy fell into the Dissonance Well again.

cantrip

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« Reply #8 on: <07-15-16/2206:32> »
Harlequin may also have access to a special vintage; one made with awakened ingredients. A magic cocktail so to speak - that in theory would bypass immunity to normal <fill in the blank> to a more normal chance of getting tipsy.  ;D

cantrip

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« Reply #9 on: <07-15-16/2211:03> »
Or as implied in an earlier post - he may have a "drunk personality" among others...

RowanTheFox

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« Reply #10 on: <07-16-16/0046:00> »
Harlequin may also have access to a special vintage; one made with awakened ingredients. A magic cocktail so to speak - that in theory would bypass immunity to normal <fill in the blank> to a more normal chance of getting tipsy.  ;D

*snorts* I just imagined the look of pure joy he'd have on his face once those ingredients reappear.  ;D

The first story doesn't happen until 2090, and the sequel is 57 years after that. Because of that, I've added in some new, very Earthdawn-ish stuff, without explicitly mentioning anything canon to ED that occurred after the two games went separate ways and isn't mentioned in SR.

There is a potential third story in the works, but I'm not sure where I'm going to go with it yet. I need to finish New Immortal and Trickster's Folly first.
It is better to be crazy and know it, than to be sane and have one's doubts.

"Nothing is wrong if no one can stop you."

Remember, you're only a genius when they need you. The rest of the time you're just an asshole.

Well, drek. Looks like Timmy fell into the Dissonance Well again.