[Morg]

Since I know some on the boards are as much Tech geeks as I am. I present to you Gemasolar's new Heliostat near Seville, in Andalusia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliostat
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/26/business/energy-environment/energy-plant-makes-a-leap-in-solar-power.html

[CanRay]

Now, where's my Euclid's C-Finder?

[Morg]

Now, where's my Euclid's C-Finder?

That would be epic but until the Outer Space Treaty is gone it is a no go
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty

Did you know that Thor satellites do not violate the Outer Space Treaty or Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty, So we can still get them in Canada
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Ballistic_Missile_Treaty

[JustADude]

Did you know that Thor satellites do not violate the Outer Space Treaty or Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty, So we can still get them in Canada

Dude, Morg, have you even looked at the definition of Weapon of Mass Destruction, which is something prohibited by the Outer Space Treaty? It's a weapon that can "bring significant harm to a large number of humans (or other life-forms) and/or cause great damage to structures and natural features."

I dunno about you, but the 400m diameter zone of "DV = Blasted To Powder" alone says "significant harm" "large number" and "great damage" to me... and that's not even counting the total blast radius of 1,600m before the DV falls to zero. It might not be radioactive, but that's definitely a weapon of mass destruction.

[Morg]

The reason why it bypasses the Treaties is because it is an unarmed hunk of space debris it gets by on a technicality, it can be put up in to orbit and no action can be taken until it is used as a weapon, under present laws the Thor is not classified as a WMD, and remember the law does not stop a conventional bomb of similar mass from being put in to orbit.

[JustADude]

The reason why it bypasses the Treaties is because it is an unarmed hunk of space debris it gets by on a technicality, it can be put up in to orbit and no action can be taken until it is used as a weapon, under present laws the Thor is not classified as a WMD

Okay, Morg, you apparently missed where I just listed the definition of a WMD. I know what a WMD is... apparently better than you do.

I also know what "an unarmed hunk of space debris" is, and an Aesyr Satellite is not one. You don't get blasts 1.6km in diameter from things falling at terminal velocity. It launches the rods, propelling them many^* times faster than they'd go if they were just dropped creating a Kinetic Strike weapon.

Or are you saying that the "Cement Bombs" the US Army uses aren't destructive munitions because they're Kinetic Strike weapons instead of explosive-based weapons? If you are saying that, there's a bunch of buildings in Iraq and Afghanistan that beg to differ.

^*The blast effects don't jive with known physics from meteor strikes; but it's either somewhere in the 30s or 90s of kilometers per second, depending on if you want the 800m blast radius or the 200m "You're Screwed" zone to mesh, respectively. The highest standard for terminal velocity I could find was 76 m/sec, a difference of several thousand times.

[Morg]

What I am saying is that a Thor, like the "Cement bomb" is classified as a conventional weapon

but if I may ask what do you think of the Heliostat?

[JustADude]

What I am saying is that a Thor, like the "Cement bomb" is classified as a conventional weapon

but if I may ask what do you think of the Heliostat?

Oh, the Heliostat's awesome, but you evading the point is rather less so. A cement bomb isn't capable of destroying a substantial chunk of a major city with one shot.

A weapon doesn't have to be nuclear or biological to be a WMD. The use of the term to mean only biohazards and nuclear weapons is strictly a post-9/11, 21st century concept. Traditionally... as in "when the Outer Space Treaty was written"... any massive "strategic"-grade weapon (and War! flat-out calls Thor Missiles strategic weapons) was considered a WMD.

Now, a Freya Missile, on the other hand, uses a much smaller rod and has a blast radius roughly 1/10th the size of a Thor strike. Those would be a conventional weapon, since a 80m is well within the parameters of a "normal" bomb strike.

[Morg]

Project Thor is considered a conventional weapon system in present day law. it is why the US government looked at it for for the Prompt Global Strike Program

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prompt_Global_Strike

Now has the world of Shadowrun called it a WMD absolutly

[JustADude]

Project Thor is considered a conventional weapon system in present day law. it is why the US government looked at it for for the Prompt Global Strike Program

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prompt_Global_Strike

Now has the world of Shadowrun called it a WMD absolutly

Again, difference of scale. Just because two things have part of their name in common doesn't mean they're the same thing.

9km/sec is a tiny fraction of the minimum energy required to reach the required "Vaporization Zone" radius listed for a Thor Strike. Project Thor is much more in line with a Freya Missile, like I mentioned above.

[Morg]

Project Thor is the founding concept behind the technology so they don't just share a name

maybe I should have started a space based weapons thread intead

[JustADude]

Project Thor is the founding concept behind the technology so they don't just share a name

maybe I should have started a space based weapons thread intead

Probably. This is getting a lot more mileage.

Also, that's like saying because a Model T is the foundation of the modern automobile that it has the same capabilities as a modern $250,000 sports car. The Thor Missiles being shot from the "Aesir" Orbital Weapons System are orders of magnitude different than the stuff designed for Project Thor.

[Morg]

I'll take what I can get until 2050 then I'll ask for the "sports car" 


and one more thing "DAMN YOU CANRAY FOR DERAILING ME!"

Ok I am better now

[Morg]

Now here is something to peel your eyelids back the ATBIP  is still considered a conventional weapon (though some are questioning that fact) and could thereby be placed in orbit. I am certain it would start an indecent, however  it is starting to make me worry about what the treaty would limit under the phrase "Conventional Weapon"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_of_All_Bombs

So maybe the Aesir or something close might sneak in too

Question for the mods: we are not getting to Political are we?

[CanRay]

and one more thing "DAMN YOU CANRAY FOR DERAILING ME!"

I don't get to play Shadowrun, only GM.

IF I SUFFER, EVERYONE SUFFERS!!!