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SR6 Toxins

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Xelian

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« on: <01-15-20/0853:27> »
Is it just me or the Squirt Gun with a NarcoJet is the most powerful weapon in the game currently? 15DV resisted with Body+Willpower is just ridiculous (And relatively expensive but still...)  If i remember correctly it was the same in SR5 but the damage of the rest of the weapons were much higher. Now you can survive being by an Assault Rifle bullet but you probably won't survive pepper punch? 

Sphinx

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« Reply #1 on: <01-15-20/1040:48> »
A few things to bear in mind, though: First, net hits from the attack don't add to the power of the toxin. Second, even "Immediate"  toxins don't take effect until the end of the current combat round (p.121), so the target can still take actions before they have to resist the damage. And third, the Ares S-III Super Squirt fires DMSO "paintballs" that convert toxins to Contact vector (p.258), and chemical protection and chemical seal armor mods protect against Contact-vector attacks (p.266).


Hobbes

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« Reply #2 on: <01-15-20/1043:04> »
Crossbows with Injection Bolts are my favorite for single target take down.  I'd go with dual one handed Crossbows and have one loaded with Narcojet and one loaded with Pepperpunch injection Bolts.  Ambedexterity, two major actions, hit them with two small bolts and then let them resist the Pepperpunch and the Narcojet.  I suspect that would even take down a lot of Spirits. 

Gas grenades for your AoE takedown.

Finstersang

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« Reply #3 on: <01-15-20/1103:34> »
A few things to bear in mind, though: First, net hits from the attack don't add to the power of the toxin. Second, even "Immediate"  toxins don't take effect until the end of the current combat round (p.121), so the target can still take actions before they have to resist the damage. And third, the Ares S-III Super Squirt fires DMSO "paintballs" that convert toxins to Contact vector (p.258), and chemical protection and chemical seal armor mods protect against Contact-vector attacks (p.266).

Last, but not least: It doesn´t help against Drones, Spirits and other non-biological targets.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #4 on: <01-15-20/1110:08> »
Gas Grenades are only useful for Pepper Punch, because you have to pay for 20 doses. Even a Tear Gas Grenade costs 450 nuyen, a Neurostun starts at 1250.

That being said, I suspect they forgot to half the DV values for Toxins, just like they forgot to half Hardened Armor's autohits, to scale with the lower damage values. I wonder if this will be covered in the errata that will release this month, otherwise it's time to houserule a nerf.
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imthedci

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« Reply #5 on: <01-15-20/1141:50> »
...the errata that will release this month...

::picks up jaw from floor:: Wait, what?! Did someone say something about this somewhere? (I ask because I usually just stay in the general and rule questions forum and I haven't seen anything about this in either (until now, that is))

Sorry for going off topic...
Thanks for the help. ^_^

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #6 on: <01-15-20/1152:23> »
JM Hardy commented it on Facebook a few days ago, AJ and I mentioned it in a few topics, but those are in the CGL subforum so not strange you missed it.
Quote
Jason M. Hardy A new update with added errata will be released this month.
Jason M. Hardy PDF. The next print run of the hardcopy book will have the revisions, but I don't currently have a schedule on when that will be ordered.
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Hobbes

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« Reply #7 on: <01-15-20/1216:08> »
A few things to bear in mind, though: First, net hits from the attack don't add to the power of the toxin. Second, even "Immediate"  toxins don't take effect until the end of the current combat round (p.121), so the target can still take actions before they have to resist the damage. And third, the Ares S-III Super Squirt fires DMSO "paintballs" that convert toxins to Contact vector (p.258), and chemical protection and chemical seal armor mods protect against Contact-vector attacks (p.266).

Last, but not least: It doesn´t help against Drones, Spirits and other non-biological targets.

Toxins work as well as anything else against Materialized Spirits.  In game world Toxins are frequently a Spirits weakness, Insecticide vs bug Spirits, Herbicide vs Plant Spirits, Fire suppression vs Fire Spirits, FAB vs all Spirits.  Narcojet, Pepperpunch ect would work, Spirit would get Auto successes from ItNW then normal resistance.

A large enough spirit will of course just wade through a cloud of poison gas and ignore it thanks to ItNW.  Arguably lingering effects may or may not "stick" if the Spirit simply de-materializes to the Astral plane.

Unless they tacked on some additional Immunity this time around that I missed.  Totally could have happened, but Nerostun/Narcojet/whatever has always been a somewhat decent option to irritate Spirits. 

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #8 on: <01-15-20/1222:38> »
And since Blight toxin specifically calls out that spirits lose ITNW, it's excellent Spirit-B-GON.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #9 on: <01-15-20/1225:55> »
No Blight in SR6 yet, though?
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #10 on: <01-15-20/1327:04> »
No, but toxins pretty much directly translate from 5e to 6we.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Aria

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« Reply #11 on: <01-15-20/1440:43> »
I’ve used Blight a lot in 5 (as a GM), will definitely be converted if it doesn’t come out in the next few crunch books!
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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #12 on: <01-16-20/0301:58> »
No, but toxins pretty much directly translate from 5e to 6we.
Which is the exact problem discussed here, no?  :P
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #13 on: <01-16-20/0711:42> »
Well, the Power remaining the same makes toxins hit comparatively harder in 6we... but antidote patches work so much better in 6we now too.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #14 on: <01-16-20/0740:55> »
Not that useful when it's a damage toxin, though, and a single dose already knocks you or throws you into Overflow.
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