[Falconer]

Yeah even in SR3 shotguns were a big deal in close combat.   In SR4... though the automatics rules and the mass amounts of recoil comp make them chopped liver though.

The only thing going is shock-lock rounds.

I agree with your assertion that they make good payload delivery systems though... their lower muzzle velocities and high bore sizes allows for a lot more viable payloads which don't need to worry about the G-shock on firing as much.   I personally feel that SnS should be shotgun only...   I'd also love to see a return to the classic 40mm single shot grenade and grenades which are actually bigass scary grenades....   the mini-grenades described in the system as fired by the SR4 current generation of GL's are almost exactly the same size as a 12guage shell as well.   You toss those three together... and i think you'd see shotguns make a comeback as a distinct utility weapon.   (slugs, shot/flechette, SnS, shock-lock, and mini/microgrenades).

[Anarkitty]

Hell for security purposes load some of the rounds with DMSO and a horse laxative, almost guaranteed physical link for sorcery purposes.

I really hope my GM doesn't read this post...

That said, I agree that shotguns are a bit underrated.  I think the issue is that they are a little...primitive.  By 2070 firearms tech has advanced in every category, but shotguns are still basically smooth tubes with an explosion at one end and an opening at the other.  They have become specialized tools than they are general weapons (which is sort of the opposite of what they are now) as other weapons have become more powerful, more accurate, more versatile and more customizable.
I would like to see more shotgun-exclusive ammos (like Shock-Lock) that give them specific roles as tools in addition to being useful as weapons.  I also agree that SnS fired from a shotgun should be slightly more powerful, maybe make it 7S and lower other guns to 5S or something.

[CanRay]

Hell for security purposes load some of the rounds with DMSO and a horse laxative, almost guaranteed physical link for sorcery purposes.

I really hope my GM doesn't read this post...

This one has, but it was the player's own choice to glug the bottle of "Draino Stomach Pump" without reading the suggested servings.

Yeah, he was a troll, it was still the family-sized bottle.  A troll family, at that!

[FuelDrop]

Hell for security purposes load some of the rounds with DMSO and a horse laxative, almost guaranteed physical link for sorcery purposes.

I really hope my GM doesn't read this post...

This one has, but it was the player's own choice to glug the bottle of "Draino Stomach Pump" without reading the suggested servings.

Yeah, he was a troll, it was still the family-sized bottle.  A troll family, at that!

*Brain bleach*

[Wildcard]

I like shotguns.

I'm not sure how common it is, but the groups I've played in have house-ruled that only shotguns can use stick-n-shock rounds, which makes sense and gives shotguns a nice 'Anti-spirits' bonus role.

Roleplaying/character-wise, my troll carries a sawn-off shotgun without a stock and uses it as a pistol. I use the longarms skill still, but there's something kind of neat about pulling out twin barrels of death from a thick armored trenchcoat when the puny meatbags around you fumble around with their pistols.

[Mirikon]

I'll admit that until the armor-piercing flechette ammo came out in WAR!, I never once considered putting shot in a shotgun. I always use ExEx, APDS, SnS, or Shock Lock rounds. I have had characters that carried two shotguns, one with lethal or SnS ammo, and the other one sawed off and on a sling, with shock lock rounds, as a 'master key'.

[Whiskeyjack]

The only advantage of shotguns at least in my experience is that they are part of the longarm skill so if you are building a sniper they are nice as a back up gun.  The fact that there are full auto shotguns that can use any type of ammo is a nice alternative to a sniper rifle in certain situations.

Not going to read the whole thread before responding, but oh well:

(1) Anecdotally, I have never built a sniper nor played with someone who built a sniper and was satisfied with the role of "sniper." It just gets really boring and narrow if that's your main thing. Umaro has gone into why this role (while glamorous-sounding) doesn't really fit a great majority of the runs and I happen to agree (given typical relative spontaneity of ops, typical engagement ranges, and how much people seem to want to headshot but don't want to be headshot themselves).
(2) I don't like shotguns because they can't be modded or silenced to the same extent as any other gun. Shock lock aside, they're too loud, not concealable enough, too terrible at full-auto with their fewer options for RC. Shock lock doesn't outweigh the fact that flechettes pretty much suck against any reasonably-armored or tough opponent.

On the other front, SnS should scale in its effect based on the normal damage code of the gun it's shot from.

[Novocrane]

Where does it say what weapons can use a silencer / suppressor, besides the accessory paragraph?

[DamienHollow]

even if you can't suppress one, you can easily justify house-ruling silent ammo... they've made it in real life.

[RHat]

(2) I don't like shotguns because they can't be modded or silenced to the same extent as any other gun.

You know, I just checked it because a poster asked here - the Silencer/Sound Suppressor rules don't prevent putting it on a shotgun by RAW.  For some reason.

As for Concealability:  Barrel Reduction (-1), Sling (-1/-2 for ready/unready), Lined Coat (-2).  That's -5 without adding the Concealable Holster (no reason by RAW that we can't).

Longarms SHOULD be the utility set.  Shotguns for special ammo or high damage in close range (better damage codes than Assault Rifles), Sporting or Sniper Rifles for longer range engagements.  And, especially considering that War doesn't seem to specify a skill for them, if they showed up at one of my games I'd rule Battle Rifles into Longarms.  Is there a clarification somewhere that sets them into Automatics?

[DamienHollow]

Longarms SHOULD be the utility set.  Shotguns for special ammo or high damage in close range (better damage codes than Assault Rifles), Sporting or Sniper Rifles for longer range engagements.  And, especially considering that War doesn't seem to specify a skill for them, if they showed up at one of my games I'd rule Battle Rifles into Longarms.  Is there a clarification somewhere that sets them into Automatics?

None that i cna find, and it would be fairly dumb considering the classification Battle Rifle is based on weapons like the M1 Garrard, M14, FAL (meh... it's a battle rifle that wants to be an assault rifle but that is neither here nor there,) ect. of those only one ever saw use as an automatic.

[WellsIDidIt]

It's in Gun Haven, the first one. They put Battle Rifles in with Automatics.

[All4BigGuns]

A battle rifle is an up-powered version of an assault rifl e. It fi res heavier
caliber rounds than an assault rifle and offers better accuracy at longer
ranges. It is heavier than an assault rifle, which helps compensate for the
added recoil of the larger round. A battle rifle’s role lies between that of an
assault rifl e and a sniper rifl e. Battle rifles use sporting rifl e ranges, and can
take any modification or accessory available to assault rifl es.
The Battle Rifle requires the Automatics skill to use effectively.

[Whiskeyjack]

even if you can't suppress one, you can easily justify house-ruling silent ammo... they've made it in real life.

Rule Zero Fallacy.

Turns out I'm wrong about silencing, even though that's really weird. Still, they can't gas-vent.

[Mirikon]

even if you can't suppress one, you can easily justify house-ruling silent ammo... they've made it in real life.

Rule Zero Fallacy.

Turns out I'm wrong about silencing, even though that's really weird. Still, they can't gas-vent.

Yeah, but if you're in SA or BF mode, it is pretty easy to eliminate recoil, even without gas-vents. And you can't use gas vent and silencers at the same time.