[Solarious]

This is my 1st post!
Yay!
I'm just getting back into Shadowrun after...oh...15 years so I'm going to have a lit of questions.
I apologize in advance.

Anyway...
I was just wondering about an opinion on wether or not implanted (in flesh or cyber) AR manipulation "fingers" would be a possibilty. It seems like a relatively simple procedure to me given the level of technology in 2075.

I'm thinking they would act like normal gloves but would never be able to be taken off of you and you'll always have them "on" in a short time emergency.

.1 essence, 1 capacity, 500 nuyen sound good?

[firebug]

There's no real point in doing it, since installing a Datajack will gives you a DNI that allows you to do that while also experiencing all of the other aspects of AR (assuming your commlink has a sim module) like sight, sound, and even taste or smell.

A direct neural interface, or DNI, connects your brain to
electronic devices. Direct neural interface (along with a sim
module) is required for VR use, but DNI is also useful for AR
in that you don’t need any additional gear like earbuds or an
image link to see or hear augmented reality objects.
How do you sign up? You get DNI by wearing trodes, or
having an implanted datajack, commlink, or cyberdeck. And if
you’re using a sim module along with your DNI, you can get a
sort of “super AR mode” where you can also feel, smell, and
taste your AR experience.

[Lysanderz]

Not true, a DNI requires a physical link. These would allow for totally wireless interaction.

[Solarious]

That's pretty much my take on it .
Plus I have to say trying to use AR gloves and something like gecko or hardline gloves at the same time sounds improbable even though I suppose it's possible under the rules

[RHat]

Not true, a DNI requires a physical link. These would allow for totally wireless interaction.

That is nowhere in the rules - at least, not that I could find searching out every mention of the term DNI.  As the rules stand, you CAN use DNI wirelessly; there's in fact no reason to think otherwise, otherwise there'd be explicit mention of things like having to wire in your smartgun to get a DNI connection.

[Lysanderz]

A datajack, in and of itself, can allow for DNI to work. But they wouldn't come with a meter of cable in them if they allowed for you to wireless access your DNI without an implanted Commlink or Deck.

[RHat]

...  No.  Just no.  Leaving aside the fact that that cable has a completely different purpose, that would not create a rule that you needed a wired connection for DNI unless it explicitly stated as much.

[Lysanderz]

So what? You spend .1 essence and suddenly you're a living wifi detector? Care to explain how a hole linked to your brain somehow allows that to be possible?

[RHat]

Considering that the datajack has enough compute power to reduce Noise penalties, it's obviously more than just a hole linked to the brain.  The question, though, is whether you can actually find a reference to this idea that DNI requires a wired connection - I know I can't.

[Dakka]

Trodes, page 493, allow a DNI with no hole in your head at all.  "Useful if you’re too squeamish to get a hole drilled in your head for a datajack". It's just wireless mesh, so clearly a DNI is possible without cables.  You CAN plug your smartgun into your datajack and disable it's wireless functions to prevent hacking, but you don't have to.

[Lysanderz]

Not arguing that DNI's can be built without cables. But I don't see how DNI's can go wireless without some sort of broadcasting device. A commlink, a deck SOMETHING to broadcast signal. I can't see how something that serves as the bridge between mind and machine can magically all-in-one become a router as well. Trodes, MAYBE, but a datajack on its own should not allow for random wireless capabilities. And everyone who I've dealt with until now has agreed on that point as a "We all understand that this is how it works" sort of deal.

I can't provide an in-the-book answer to the question so I'm just gonna have to keep this in mind and alert new players to my table that this is some form of a house rule that we keep.

[Lysanderz]

Side note: When are we gonna see those magnet implants we heard about in Assassin's primer? Those things were tight.

[RHat]

Not arguing that DNI's can be built without cables. But I don't see how DNI's can go wireless without some sort of broadcasting device. A commlink, a deck SOMETHING to broadcast signal. I can't see how something that serves as the bridge between mind and machine can magically all-in-one become a router as well. Trodes, MAYBE, but a datajack on its own should not allow for random wireless capabilities. And everyone who I've dealt with until now has agreed on that point as a "We all understand that this is how it works" sort of deal.

I can't provide an in-the-book answer to the question so I'm just gonna have to keep this in mind and alert new players to my table that this is some form of a house rule that we keep.

It's worth noting that a datajack IS a broadcasting device; it does, in fact, have built in wireless capabilities - including having a wireless bonus.

[JackVII]

It's worth noting that a datajack IS a broadcasting device; it does, in fact, have built in wireless capabilities - including having a wireless bonus.

This is completely OT, but I always wondered about this. The wireless bonus is Noise Reduction 1. What's the order of operation on that? If you have a standard datajack and are in an area with Noise Rating 3, does the datajack's wireless bonus still work (reducing the Noise to level 2 which would equal the DR for a standard datajack) or does the noise shut off the wireless bonus (and thus not grant the Noise Reduction?)

ETA: Just to provide something on-topic to the thread, I guess you would still get the benefit of being able to pick stuff up and get the whole "weight, temperature, and hardness" deal that AR gloves provide but a DNI does not. That could be useful in certain circumstances (drug dealer, fence, etc).

[RHat]

It's worth noting that a datajack IS a broadcasting device; it does, in fact, have built in wireless capabilities - including having a wireless bonus.

This is completely OT, but I always wondered about this. The wireless bonus is Noise Reduction 1. What's the order of operation on that? If you have a standard datajack and are in an area with Noise Rating 3, does the datajack's wireless bonus still work (reducing the Noise to level 2 which would equal the DR for a standard datajack) or does the noise shut off the wireless bonus (and thus not grant the Noise Reduction?)

Never made clear, so far as I know - but I'd apply the reduction first.