Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Devil on <10-05-10/1321:02>
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So I've been trying to figure this out...
Why is the heritage line unavailable to starting characters?
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Snooty marketing people?
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So I've been trying to figure this out...
Why is the heritage line unavailable to starting characters?
The what?
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Heritage Line clothing from Arsenal.
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I'm going with Monky's answer on this one. ;)
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Seems like you could buy some armored clothes and decide for yourself what they look like, so it's a bit odd to restrict something from starting characters that is no better. The only reasoning behind it that I can see is that the rights to each heritage line are owned by the people who made the order. Corps, governments, individuals, ect. Still, it seems like those people would generally be more than willing to turn around and sell the clothing to the public for profit.
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The description says it, that stuff gets produced exclusively for one customer unitl the licence goes public. So its legal to get, but not that easy for people who can't step in the "tres chic" botiques :)
*edit* Hmpf, ninja'd by Joker...
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In other words, I was right. ;D
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Those snooty rich bastards. Think they are better than my character? Screw them.
Aaanyways... Thanks for helping me to figure that out. I'll just go with Heavy Armored Clothes probably.
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In other words, I was right. ;D
Somebody just had to translate your rightness for the mortals ;D
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Bow before me and my greatness!
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I hasa Taco!
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Tacos! The food of the gods.
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Only trolls and dwarves are allowed to wear the scottish line. Elves have to wear the princess line.
Edit- Yoinks the taco.
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:'(
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Only trolls and dwarves are allowed to wear the scottish line. Elves have to wear the princess line.
Edit- Yoinks the taco.
Elves actually have their own heritage line.
Now you know.
And knowing is half the battle.
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Only trolls and dwarves are allowed to wear the scottish line. Elves have to wear the princess line.
Edit- Yoinks the taco.
Elves actually have their own heritage line.
Now you know.
And knowing is half the battle.
Yes they do, it's called the Princess of Camelot line. It features alot of frilly lace and the color magenta.
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Don't forget the butterfly nets.
You horrible taco thief.
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Hey, just because they wear pink tutus doesn't mean they can't be manly.
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You CAN, in fact, get it with the Restricted Gear quality.
Your GM has to make up the price and stats, though.
-k
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Unfortunately it would rarely be worth taking the quality. In the case of the character I am building it is not. Easier to just have nice Heavy Armored Clothes that look the way I want them to anyway. There are rare cases when it may be worth it, but I just want a neo-samurai look. I'm not trying to be an ethnic high society type or anything else that would warrant a very specific and exclusive line of clothing. Better to use that quality to get a powerful Focus Weapon or some insane Bioware.
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You CAN, in fact, get it with the Restricted Gear quality.
Your GM has to make up the price and stats, though.
-k
Yeah, because a 6/4 suit is a reeeeeal bargain at 10000+ Nuyen ;) Or, at char creation, 7 BP/14 Karma.
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You broke my heart Monkey :-X
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Eh. Owning a Heritage suit is never, ever going to be about the ratings.
It's a status symbol.
-k
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Oh, I'm not saying some aren't manly, Robin Hood wore tights. What I'm saying is it doesn't really help the borderline ones, you know those ones ::)
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If you are trying to look Chic and fit into the wealthy, hip crowd and still have some modest amount of protection, then yes, it is worth it.
If you are travelling through Everett or Tacoma, then no you won't get much use out of it as all it will do is draw stares (which you don't want).
If you are moving through the Barrens (pick one), then this is a huge "KILL ME AND ROB ME" sign written all over you.
Fashion depends on what part of society you are moving through.
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Yes it does, the saying "The nail that sticks out gets hammered down" is true in this case. Honestly though, the Heritage line seems over priced compared to the other fashionable lines. Most of which are between half or a third of the cost. The only thing that comes close is the Moonsilver gown and that is 75% of the cost.
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It represents the top end fashion of the elite. Wearing it should get you the attention you desire when going to the right parties.
Remember, the stupidly rich (or just rich and stupid) go with the top end fashion, while everyone else deals with functional clothing that may or may not look nice.
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It's the difference between wearing Tommy Hilfiger off the rack and a personally tailored suit from Tommy.
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The stupid rich are called that for a reason. Unlike the rest of us who have to work for our money and tend to dress practically and cheaply they have to look for stupid shit to blow their money on. So for them it makes sense. Fancy, extremely overpriced armored clothes vs. armored vest worn under cheaper, but still fancy clothes? That's the debate.
You broke my heart Monkey :-X
Sorry. Can I have my taco back now?
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Yes you can, this time.
Edit- I suppose that's a reason for the expense of the armor, that and it show's off your "heritage". I'm German/Swedish and I wouldn't even consider wearing what most people think are our traditional costumes.
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Fashion depends on what part of society you are moving through.
More importantly, though, Fashion is a spell which allows a mage to permanently make any piece of armor or article of clothing look like whatever one might like.
Fashion (Physical)
Type: P • Range: T • Duration: P • DV: (F ÷ 2)
This spell instantly tailors clothing, transforming garments
into any fashion the caster wishes. The hits measure
the degree of style in the tailoring. The spell cannot change
clothing’s protective value, only its cut, color, pattern, and fit.
The weight of the clothing does not change, and it must cover
approximately the same amount of area (a jump suit can’t be
converted into a bikini). The caster must touch the clothing.
All that separates you from the Chic-est of clothing is 5 hits on a spellcasting test.
Brand name is for mundanes.
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Yeah, I really should take another look at spells. I've been thinking adept, but mystic adept or mage could be cool too.
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Mystic adept is pretty worth it.
All you need is 1 point of spellcasting mojo and you can take counter-spelling. The trick to making an effective MA is to boost your spellcasting up very high and take the restricted gear quality to grab up that F4 Power Focus. With Spellcasting 6 and a F4 focus, you're throwing 11 dice even with a magic rating of 1. Naturally, you'd want at least two points of magic for spell-slinging so you can overcast Increased Reflexes at level 4 and get 4 IPs locked into your Sustaining Focus. 2 points of magic shifted to Spellcasting just saved you 4 magic worth of adept Power Points... until you hit a background count...
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Fashion depends on what part of society you are moving through.
More importantly, though, Fashion is a spell which allows a mage to permanently make any piece of armor or article of clothing look like whatever one might like.
Fashion (Physical)
Type: P • Range: T • Duration: P • DV: (F ÷ 2)
This spell instantly tailors clothing, transforming garments
into any fashion the caster wishes. The hits measure
the degree of style in the tailoring. The spell cannot change
clothing’s protective value, only its cut, color, pattern, and fit.
The weight of the clothing does not change, and it must cover
approximately the same amount of area (a jump suit can’t be
converted into a bikini). The caster must touch the clothing.
All that separates you from the Chic-est of clothing is 5 hits on a spellcasting test.
Brand name is for mundanes.
Does that mean that elves would always see the item as a pink tutu? ;D
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Mystic adept is pretty worth it.
All you need is 1 point of spellcasting mojo and you can take counter-spelling. The trick to making an effective MA is to boost your spellcasting up very high and take the restricted gear quality to grab up that F4 Power Focus. With Spellcasting 6 and a F4 focus, you're throwing 11 dice even with a magic rating of 1. Naturally, you'd want at least two points of magic for spell-slinging so you can overcast Increased Reflexes at level 4 and get 4 IPs locked into your Sustaining Focus. 2 points of magic shifted to Spellcasting just saved you 4 magic worth of adept Power Points... until you hit a background count...
Sustaining Focus 4 is really silly expensive.
-k
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Naturally, you'd want at least two points of magic for spell-slinging so you can overcast Increased Reflexes at level 4
The limit on the force of spells is counted from your full magic, so magic 6 mystic-adept can cast up to force 12(6 without overcasting) no matter how he split his magic score.
The trick to getting respectable casting pool on a mys-ad is to get a specialization for you skill and a mentor spirit that gives bonus dice for spell category(or 2)
If you want to max your pool for one category then pick a mentor that gives a bonus to same category as your spec and if you want to max your flexibility then get one that gives bonus to 2 categories that arent the one you got a spec for. 8)
Also if you really only care about one spell category, then that resricted gear might be better spend on a spellcasting focus 5 ;)
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Sustaining Focus 4 is really silly expensive.
-k
Well, you don't go straight for four at chargen. Just get a 3 to start for 6 bp in gear cost and 3 bp in bonding.
~10 BP isn't too bad for +3 init and +3 IP. Main issue is that it doesn't boost your Reaction, so you're just as easy to shoot, until you throw some Combat Sense in the mix.
I guess you may not want too many foci once you've got your Extended Masking cooking, but I've always felt like getting sustaining foci is a pretty big money goal for mages.
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Fashion depends on what part of society you are moving through.
More importantly, though, Fashion is a spell which allows a mage to permanently make any piece of armor or article of clothing look like whatever one might like.
Fashion (Physical)
Type: P • Range: T • Duration: P • DV: (F ÷ 2)
This spell instantly tailors clothing, transforming garments
into any fashion the caster wishes. The hits measure
the degree of style in the tailoring. The spell cannot change
clothing’s protective value, only its cut, color, pattern, and fit.
The weight of the clothing does not change, and it must cover
approximately the same amount of area (a jump suit can’t be
converted into a bikini). The caster must touch the clothing.
All that separates you from the Chic-est of clothing is 5 hits on a spellcasting test.
Brand name is for mundanes.
Hey could you use the Shape spell to do the same thing?
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Main issue is that it doesn't boost your Reaction, so you're just as easy to shoot, until you throw some Combat Sense in the mix.
Just for the record, you're normally better off with an Increase Reaction spell instead of Combat Sense, if you can cast it at an appropriate Force to handle the augmented attribute.
You've got much less Drain to worry about, it's a flat addition to Reaction for everything (so skills, too, for instance, not just surprise/dodging), and opposed test rules for Combat Sense being an Active-Detection spell. Heck, just to cut down on the die rolling alone, thanks to it not being a Detection spell, it's worth it, in my opinion. ;)
Unless you've got a fat bonus on Detection spells from a Mentor Spirit or focus or something, Increase Reaction's the way to go.
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The limit on the force of spells is counted from your full magic, so magic 6 mystic-adept can cast up to force 12(6 without overcasting) no matter how he split his magic score.
The trick to getting respectable casting pool on a mys-ad is to get a specialization for you skill and a mentor spirit that gives bonus dice for spell category(or 2)
If you want to max your pool for one category then pick a mentor that gives a bonus to same category as your spec and if you want to max your flexibility then get one that gives bonus to 2 categories that arent the one you got a spec for. 8)
Also if you really only care about one spell category, then that resricted gear might be better spend on a spellcasting focus 5 ;)
According to the FAQ, how many points you allocate to magic use as opposed to Adept Power Points does matter for overcasting:
Though mystic adepts must split their Magic between Magic-based skills and adept powers, it says that for all other purposes, including the limits of adept powers, the mystic adept uses his full Magic attribute. Does this mean that a mystic adept with Magic 6 who has allocated 2 points to Magic skills and 4 points to adept powers can cast Force 6 spells without flinching?
The Magic points allocated towards Magic-based skills counts for all aspects of those skills. This includes: Magic-linked skill tests (Summoning, Spellcasting, Enchanting, etc.), maximum spell Force, overcasting, etc.
For a mystic adept's adept powers, only the points allocated towards adept powers apply. This includes powers that require Magic Tests like Attribute Boost, the maximum rating of leveled adept powers, etc.
For all other purposes—i.e., non-Magic-linked skills—the mystic adept's full Magic attribute is used: pressing through astral barriers, initiation grade limit, Masking metamagic, being assensed, etc.
So for the example above, a mystic adept with Magic 6 with 2 points devoted to Magic skills and 4 points to adept powers, the maximum Force he can cast at is 4, and anything over Force 2 is Physical Drain. His adept powers are limited to rating 4 or lower.
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Yeah, the FAQ directly contradicts the core rules there, but the FAQ is intended to be clarification, not errata.
If a rulebook says one thing, but the FAQ says different, the rulebook is supposed to trump the FAQ.
Actual rules changes are supposed to be in Errata.
-k
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Main issue is that it doesn't boost your Reaction, so you're just as easy to shoot, until you throw some Combat Sense in the mix.
Just for the record, you're normally better off with an Increase Reaction spell instead of Combat Sense, if you can cast it at an appropriate Force to handle the augmented attribute.
You've got much less Drain to worry about, it's a flat addition to Reaction for everything (so skills, too, for instance, not just surprise/dodging), and opposed test rules for Combat Sense being an Active-Detection spell. Heck, just to cut down on the die rolling alone, thanks to it not being a Detection spell, it's worth it, in my opinion. ;)
Unless you've got a fat bonus on Detection spells from a Mentor Spirit or focus or something, Increase Reaction's the way to go.
Only problem with the Increase [Attribute] spells is that you have to cast them at or above the Force of the attribute, so it's harder to fit into a sustaining focus if your stat is already decent. But, I guess, with an average stat of 3, you only need to cast it at Force 3, which you can fit in a chargen Sust-foc, and will potentially boost Reaction to 6 with a measly 3 hits.
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Fashion depends on what part of society you are moving through.
More importantly, though, Fashion is a spell which allows a mage to permanently make any piece of armor or article of clothing look like whatever one might like.
Fashion (Physical)
Type: P • Range: T • Duration: P • DV: (F ÷ 2)
This spell instantly tailors clothing, transforming garments
into any fashion the caster wishes. The hits measure
the degree of style in the tailoring. The spell cannot change
clothing’s protective value, only its cut, color, pattern, and fit.
The weight of the clothing does not change, and it must cover
approximately the same amount of area (a jump suit can’t be
converted into a bikini). The caster must touch the clothing.
All that separates you from the Chic-est of clothing is 5 hits on a spellcasting test.
Brand name is for mundanes.
Hey could you use the Shape spell to do the same thing?
Does nobody know the answer to this?
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Fashion depends on what part of society you are moving through.
More importantly, though, Fashion is a spell which allows a mage to permanently make any piece of armor or article of clothing look like whatever one might like.
Fashion (Physical)
Type: P • Range: T • Duration: P • DV: (F ÷ 2)
This spell instantly tailors clothing, transforming garments
into any fashion the caster wishes. The hits measure
the degree of style in the tailoring. The spell cannot change
clothing’s protective value, only its cut, color, pattern, and fit.
The weight of the clothing does not change, and it must cover
approximately the same amount of area (a jump suit can’t be
converted into a bikini). The caster must touch the clothing.
All that separates you from the Chic-est of clothing is 5 hits on a spellcasting test.
Brand name is for mundanes.
Hey could you use the Shape spell to do the same thing?
Does nobody know the answer to this?
Possibly. But Shape is more along the lines of taking the concrete bunker and re-shaping it into a set of stairs or something similar.
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According to the FAQ, how many points you allocate to magic use as opposed to Adept Power Points does matter for overcasting:
And that particular entry is the biggest reason that the FAQ isn't worth anythink except maybe to use as toilet paper if you print it out, as it directly contradicts the actual rulebook.
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Now, Mäx, the FAQ isn't that bad.
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It might have been worth something, if only it would answer all those questions that keep coming up again and again and again. As it is now, it ain't worth the match you need to set it on fire...
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Now, Mäx, the FAQ isn't that bad.
but It could've been way ,way (WAHAY !!) better
with a dissapointed Dance
Medicineman
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I dunno, I think the core book is a little vague about mystic adepts limits on force of spells etc. I personally disagree with the errata in this case, but I don't really agree with the statement that the errata explicitly contradicts the rule book - based on how vague the core rule book is on this particular matter.... imho
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I dunno, I think the core book is a little vague about mystic adepts limits on force of spells etc. I personally disagree with the errata in this case, but I don't really agree with the statement that the errata explicitly contradicts the rule book - based on how vague the core rule book is on this particular matter.... imho
What errata are you talking about, if you mean the FAQ then that very specifically isn't errata.
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Yea, sorry... typed errata, but meant FAQ. =P Brain fart/typo blunder.
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I dunno, I think the core book is a little vague about mystic adepts limits on force of spells etc. I personally disagree with the errata in this case, but I don't really agree with the statement that the errata explicitly contradicts the rule book - based on how vague the core rule book is on this particular matter.... imho
What errata are you talking about, if you mean the FAQ then that very specifically isn't errata.
I know you are very militant about this subject, and the official FAQ author actually agrees with you - except in the on specific case of Mystic Adepts.
In the very same thread where AH stated that "The FAQ is not errata" he also a couple pages later states that the Mystic Adept change is more or less an exception to that.
-k
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I know you are very militant about this subject, and the official FAQ author actually agrees with you - except in the on specific case of Mystic Adepts.
In the very same thread where AH stated that "The FAQ is not errata" he also a couple pages later states that the Mystic Adept change is more or less an exception to that.
Which is purely his personal opinion, if they actually wanted to change that rule, they would have printed that into SR4A or released an errata that changes it.
Seriously, it would take about 5 minutes to publish an errata, if that was supposed to be an actual rule change.
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Well, that's an issue with the glacially slow speed of them publishing errata.
Which is a whole 'nother discussion.
-k
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Well, Jason is in charge of errata.
Go ahead and tell him how lazy he is for not taking the 5 minutes to properly gimp Mystic Adepts. :P
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Hey, this Heritage line...why not. Think out a story, take some qualities and you got your hands on it.
Errr...and probably discuss it with your gamemaster ;)
There is no such rule that doing something that is not exactly written in CoreBook is strictly forbiden...and even when it is, there should be some exception.
I hope...
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You mean, take the Restricted Gear quality so that you can spend 10,000+ nuyen on an availability 14 armored grass skirt for your Samoan street sam?
That.. is within the realm of possibility..
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Not the Samoan line, silly. I want the Elven line that celebrates our people's proud history of. . .
61 years. ;D
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In fact, im beginning to be curious...where to get this Herritage Line in Lagos....
and how far you should run still wearing it
:D