Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Redwulfe on <03-20-11/1215:54>
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Looking to get a permit for a character, not a fake license. Where can I find this in the 4th ed books also does anyone know where the UCAS legal stuff is located now?
thanks all,
Red
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Getting it through illegal means is faster, cheaper, better, and won't get you denied at the end because you didn't check the right box in the middle of the process, wasting months of your life and hours of paperwork. :P
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I'm actually disappointed that there are no guidelines for making legal purchases anywhere in the source books. I mean, come on, some of us actually do take the SINner quality! What does a legal gun license cost? It should certainly be a lot less than the 600 big ones a decent fake will run you.
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I'm actually disappointed that there are no guidelines for making legal purchases anywhere in the source books. I mean, come on, some of us actually do take the SINner quality! What does a legal gun license cost? It should certainly be a lot less than the 600 big ones a decent fake will run you.
Depends actually. Here's an Australian run-down
A) A normal gun license only entitles you to own it, and utilise it on private property or in registered firing-ranges. When stored or transported, gun and ammo must be kept in seperate containers.
B) Handguns are much more stringently monitored, and seperated into Target pistols vs Security (/Law-Enforcement, your standard Pistols)
C) A license to carry a VISIBLE handgun is limited to rent-acops and armed guards (who have to undergo a Psych test on application)
D) A License to carry a CONCEALED weapon (ie a Handgun under your coat) is restricted to security personnel only, normally undercover cops or high-level bodyguards
E) There are no civilian licenses available to carry a loaded rifle/shotgun in a public place. This is restricted to S.O.G. (Special Operations group aka 'Sons of God', basically the Aussie SWAT) and/or Military personnel. Both situations are closely monitored by authorities when deployed
F) there are no civilian licenses for Burst fire weapons (SMG,s Assault Rifles etc)
So, there's what we're stuck with down under. I know firearm laws are currently more liberal in the USA, but there's no standard reason why Seattle 2070 couldn't have similar laws. As it is, Knight Errant would have a specific contract for it's officers to carry firearms, The corps have extra-territoriality on their grounds, so can do whatever the hell they want, and Joe Average might not carry a gun (It's Seattle, NOT Texas :P )
As for why there aren't specific Legality rules for SINners, well, let's face it. Criminal SINner means you're not going to get a lot of legal firearms purchases anyway.
Joe Average SINner is a fractionof all shadowrunners, so I can forgive Catalyst for not including a whole ruleset that specifically caters to this very small minority :P
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John Q. Wageslave is willing to go through a lot of paperwork and hassle to get the legal permit for his Colt L36 American so he can feel safe on the Monorail... And has even more information about him included in his SIN registry due to the ownership.
John Q. Shadowrunner is willing to go through a lot of paperwork and hassle to get denied for his attempt at getting a legal permit for a Colt M23 so he can feel safe on a Shadowrun... And has even more information about him included in his SIN registry due to the attempt at ownership.
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The reason it came up was not even for legal gun licenses but for check point passes in New York. Some of the players wanted to flesh out there real world SIN so that they can try to avoid it and give it good background for when it does come up. Also sometimes they don't mind having there real SIN displayed when walking around. Keeps there fakes for when they need them, so they don't have them fail a check when they go through a check point in a situation that they legally should be able to do without drawing attention. I.E. If I live in one section of town and have a business in another when I go to a meet in that same section, why would I risk my fake SIN at the checkpoint when I can just use my legal one and get past with no problems. For now I just gave it to them for free as part of the SINner negative quality.
Red
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I.E. If I live in one section of town and have a business in another when I go to a meet in that same section, why would I risk my fake SIN at the checkpoint when I can just use my legal one and get past with no problems. For now I just gave it to them for free as part of the SINner negative quality.
Red
And that situation sounds perfectly legit :)
However
A) is this a Criminal SIN? If so, the guards are still going to give the PC grief whenever they go through the checkpoint, and will scan them for contraband much more regularly and thoroughly than Joe Average
B) is this a Civilian SIN? At which point when something Illegal pops up on a regular scan (which will happen eventually, due to Shadowrunners constantly having explosives residue, weird chemicals, firearms, or cyberware around them) then their Civilian SIN now becomes a Criominal SIN.... Yay! :'(
Unless the runner is BEHAVING like Joe Average on a regular basis, and carrying the equipment opf Joe Average (including permits for all cyberware as well as firearms), they're going to get some grief, and at the very least, asked for some 'Please Explains' regularly by the authorities...
It's a vicious Negative quality for a shadowrunner.... so while I applaud the PC's for wanting to flesh out the details, this quality should be more of a hindrance than a help (especially if Blood/Saliva/Sweat is left on a run... a SIN includes a full DNA markup, and if matched, will now advise that Joe Average regularly goes through Checkpoints A and B on their way to work.... )
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I.E. If I live in one section of town and have a business in another when I go to a meet in that same section, why would I risk my fake SIN at the checkpoint when I can just use my legal one and get past with no problems. For now I just gave it to them for free as part of the SINner negative quality.
Red
And that situation sounds perfectly legit :)
You must have misunderstood, my players are note trying to fool me or use there hindrances as advantages. We are a very story driven group. Backgrounds are an everyday part of that. We all go to great lengths to bring the story to life and knowing how you SIN ties you to the world is a part of that.
However
A) is this a Criminal SIN? If so, the guards are still going to give the PC grief whenever they go through the checkpoint, and will scan them for contraband much more regularly and thoroughly than Joe Average
B) is this a Civilian SIN? At which point when something Illegal pops up on a regular scan (which will happen eventually, due to Shadowrunners constantly having explosives residue, weird chemicals, firearms, or cyberware around them) then their Civilian SIN now becomes a Criominal SIN.... Yay! :'(
Explosive residue? Weird chemicals? Regular scan? if this is a regular scan then even a perk like a fake SIN will not get them by. The second one of these comes up, they would be screwed. I don't think that scans of this sort would be used in everyday traffic of millions of contrite trying to get to work in one of the largest corporate owned strutters in the world. Commerce would come to a scratching halt. People need to be able to walk by and at the most there pass would be checked. Those with black passes may be pulled out of line to face a chem sniff and mag scanner but not everyone. On a bad day they may start pulling at random but not every day.
Also having your SIN turned to a criminal one is the least of a runners worries in Manhattan.especially since that would happen if you where a SINner or not. The SINless in Manhattan are also worse of than the SINed as they are usually beaten in public to prove a point. Runners on the other hand have abetted chance at catching a break as they work for the corporations that own the city, but it still means a hefty bribe on a good day and a beating on a bad one if you are SINless. The ones with SINs get off with just having there SIN turned criminal? That would be a slap on the wrist if you asked me.
Unless the runner is BEHAVING like Joe Average on a regular basis, and carrying the equipment opf Joe Average (including permits for all cyberware as well as firearms), they're going to get some grief, and at the very least, asked for some 'Please Explains' regularly by the authorities...
It's a vicious Negative quality for a shadowrunner.... so while I applaud the PC's for wanting to flesh out the details, this quality should be more of a hindrance than a help (especially if Blood/Saliva/Sweat is left on a run... a SIN includes a full DNA markup, and if matched, will now advise that Joe Average regularly goes through Checkpoints A and B on their way to work.... )
At 5 points I wouldn't call it vicious, it is a negative one but not vicious. The problem with having a SIN is not having it one day turn negative, the problem is having it track you down. You see, every time you use a SIN real or fake you leave a trail. Fake ones can simply be burned, real ones can not. If I use the real SIN to pass the check point from a to b everyday then there is a trail of that. If I go in to buy something minor for a run there is a trail to that, if I use it to book a restaurant there is a trail of that, and the more I use it the bigger my nearly unburnable trail becomes. One minor slip on a job and a data search latter and my trail to me real life comes barreling down on me. One fingerprint, one skin flake, one hair sample and boom the Corp I just hit knows about me. Luckily my players are smart they play well and try to keep the authorities and corps at bay and when they do do a run they make sure that the payback is mitigated as much as possible.
They don't use regular amor they use stun spells they don't destroy corporate property you less any of that is unavoidable. You see corps care only about money and though you may have cost them some every family they have to pay pension to, every training dollar they have to spend on a replacement, every cent that have in repairs to a major facile, and every PR coverup they have to spin is a tick on the kill the runners and the people who hired them scale. It is inevitable that someone will wish payback but the amount can be negotiated.
But we may be running of track. After every game I add to a file I keep on every runner in the game. This file is the investigation report that those involved will actually do. If you mess up it will have reproductions in the game. The number of characters that have lost there lives due to weighting the scale mentioned above coupled with the DNA left behind that got the investigators onto the trail and the amount of times they used there free checkpoint pass to create the trail that got them killed makes me wonder why SINner is only 5 points. It should be much more. The only thing i can come up with is that its also has its perks. It will eventually get your charcter killed or force his early retirement though so it is a 5 point negative quality overall. This being said I still have players who wish to try and see how long they can last on that bull ride. Trust me it is a hindrance and I will let them have as much free rope as they wish to eventually hang themselves with but the story it creates as they try to survive the inevitable is worth it to Bo them and me.
As I said criminal SIN is the least of my players worry, this flaw will kill them. I think I finally found the cost, it just costs time in game, nothing more, well maybe 5-10 new yen for processing fees, the players have enough to worry about without needing a cost on top of that.
Red
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Well to answer your question about legal carry permits... ummm, officially I don't know. What I do know is in the real Manhattan you need an exceptional reason to carry a handgun.
Since Manhattan is all about strict control of social strata your average player wouldn't be able to carry concealed on the island unless they were a registered bodyguard and on the job. Personally that's how I'd rule it. I'm running a game in Manhattan myself but all the players are in Terminal or The Pit right now so NYPD inc. isn't a factor.
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However
A) is this a Criminal SIN? If so, the guards are still going to give the PC grief whenever they go through the checkpoint, and will scan them for contraband much more regularly and thoroughly than Joe Average
B) is this a Civilian SIN? At which point when something Illegal pops up on a regular scan (which will happen eventually, due to Shadowrunners constantly having explosives residue, weird chemicals, firearms, or cyberware around them) then their Civilian SIN now becomes a Criominal SIN.... Yay! :'(
Explosive residue? Weird chemicals? Regular scan? if this is a regular scan then even a perk like a fake SIN will not get them by. The second one of these comes up, they would be screwed. I don't think that scans of this sort would be used in everyday traffic of millions of contrite trying to get to work in one of the largest corporate owned strutters in the world. Commerce would come to a scratching halt. People need to be able to walk by and at the most there pass would be checked. Those with black passes may be pulled out of line to face a chem sniff and mag scanner but not everyone. On a bad day they may start pulling at random but not every day.
Also having your SIN turned to a criminal one is the least of a runners worries in Manhattan.especially since that would happen if you where a SINner or not. The SINless in Manhattan are also worse of than the SINed as they are usually beaten in public to prove a point. Runners on the other hand have abetted chance at catching a break as they work for the corporations that own the city, but it still means a hefty bribe on a good day and a beating on a bad one if you are SINless. The ones with SINs get off with just having there SIN turned criminal? That would be a slap on the wrist if you asked me.
A) Actually, these scanners (MAD, Chemsniffer etc) are in place everywhere, every day in 2070 plus (at least in Seattle. Haven't read about Manhattan specifically). They are as un-intrusive as the current Shoplifter scanners in any department store. Granted, they may be dialled up to be a bit less sensitive, with the prevalence of more metal in people's bodies, but they can be anywhere, inbuilt unobtrusively into a wall, and very much a surprise.
B) No, the ones with SIN's get locked up, jailed, and THEN beaten up and having their SIN turned into a Criminal SIN.
C) I haven't quoted the rest of your post (as it was well written, but quite long :) ), but your summary on Datafiles and investigation records is excellent. As for the leaving of ophysical traces and analysis, you're right in that it's a cost-vs-reward exercise for any corp. However, the moment they stop caring about the public snooping, they will hand over their gathered evidence to NYPD (or the local authority) to say 'These are the material traces for the unauthorised entry we'd like to report on from last month'. It may then get buried in red tape for a year, but someone is going to have a very legitimate reason to knock on your SINner's door.
D) For 5 points, it shouldn't be a hindrance every mission... but especially if the PC's are getting some assistance out of it, it should be played as either a MASSIVE problem every now and then, or at least a regular annoyance.
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My rule is : If you have a SIN, you get the licence you want (at character creation) for free if your "official life" justify it.
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Or part of the Lifestyle. I mean, driver's license has to be part of the vehicle maintenance...
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A) Actually, these scanners (MAD, Chemsniffer etc) are in place everywhere, every day in 2070 plus (at least in Seattle. Haven't read about Manhattan specifically). They are as un-intrusive as the current Shoplifter scanners in any department store. Granted, they may be dialled up to be a bit less sensitive, with the prevalence of more metal in people's bodies, but they can be anywhere, inbuilt unobtrusively into a wall, and very much a surprise.
B) No, the ones with SIN's get locked up, jailed, and THEN beaten up and having their SIN turned into a Criminal SIN.
C) I haven't quoted the rest of your post (as it was well written, but quite long :) ), but your summary on Datafiles and investigation records is excellent. As for the leaving of ophysical traces and analysis, you're right in that it's a cost-vs-reward exercise for any corp. However, the moment they stop caring about the public snooping, they will hand over their gathered evidence to NYPD (or the local authority) to say 'These are the material traces for the unauthorised entry we'd like to report on from last month'. It may then get buried in red tape for a year, but someone is going to have a very legitimate reason to knock on your SINner's door.
D) For 5 points, it shouldn't be a hindrance every mission... but especially if the PC's are getting some assistance out of it, it should be played as either a MASSIVE problem every now and then, or at least a regular annoyance.
A) True, I guess I am think to much on the lines of a hand scanner when I responded to this. I think most runners will be able to get around this any way thats what skimmers are for.the team that i have have set up several lifestyles in many areas of Manhattan and Newark to hide gear they may need so they don't have to cross points with them in toe and they try not to use explosives or weird chemicals if they can get by without it, and then that's what Skimmers are for. :)
B)I had read in the rotten Apple that Public beatings happened more often than not, jail came after. I may have read into something or read it wrong as well. It happens, to each there own world. My Manhattan is very frightening for the SINless.
C)Yes I tend to be a bit winded. :) Yep I fully agree. When we first got the group together to play i warned them that I don't like killing players but Shadowrun and Darksun are two game where I feel character death is inevitable. Its how long you can stay alive that's the trick. At first we lost a character every week. Then it slowly trickled down over time and this was in Seattle. they are now wanting to try there hand in a more scrutinizing and deadly environment for the criminally inclined so we are gearing up for NYC. First game is in two weeks so I want to be prepared. I tend to keep a running file on every runner from the investigators point of view. who knows what and how much. they can get tidbits of what others know from word on the street, as they don't know what there public pop(the file) is, or from news casts after a run. they tend to watch these like hawks looking for any clues that mean that someone is on to them. I have turned them into a very paranoid group. :) but it is a fun game. :)
D)Yep thats what happens, so i fully agree with that.
Red
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My rule is : If you have a SIN, you get the licence you want (at character creation) for free if your "official life" justify it.
Yea, I think this is the way I'm going to handle it as well.
thanks,
Red
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Or part of the Lifestyle. I mean, driver's license has to be part of the vehicle maintenance...
Good idea to take into account the lifestyle. I don't think I'll refuse driver's licence to a SINner player with lifestyle under "low" but for some others licences it can be determinant.
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I think it depends on the location and the type of licence you want. 'Everyday' things like driver's licence shouldn't be a problem and if your SINner character is a mage or adept, this fact is known and he/she has probably a magic licence as well. In fact, for the latter licence it should be included in the background of the character how and why she got awakened and a licence.
For guns it's a totally different thing. tasers are not an issue and I would say light pistols can be legally purchased/licenced without much problem either (except in certain locations). Assault riffles is another matter entirely, althought in some locations that's not a problem either. I think it depends on how much detail you want to get into during play.
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For guns it's a totally different thing. tasers are not an issue and I would say light pistols can be legally purchased/licenced without much problem either (except in certain locations). Assault riffles is another matter entirely, althought in some locations that's not a problem either. I think it depends on how much detail you want to get into during play.
For my Sasha who's an armed escort(combination of a bodyguard and an escort, inspired by one of the older rule books mention people like that) with her real SIN, i kinda assumed while building her that anythink up to a machine pistol shouldn't seem too much out of place for a licenced bodyguard and there isn't much need to carry anything bigger then that when not actually on a shadowrun
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Well, Finally got my hands on a copy of Neo-anarchist Guide to NA, I remember it being useful but man is it still ever. though out of date that is easy to render, but the security ratings of the different areas of NYC the information on Passes the amendments to the constitution and Legal codes and crimes and punishment section on the UCAS as well as the conversion weight of the UCAS dollar are still very relevant in the game. As far as this topic goes I found out there are more passes than what we thought:
Resident Passes- Corporate sponsored resident, Gets automatic enrollment into Doc Wagon, Medvac, access to exclusive VIP areas, vehicle permit and discounts in the city. Reviewed every 5 years.
---Solid White: Only have homes and property in NYC
---White with a Green stripe: Have a home or property outside of NYC as well as your one inside the city.
Work Passes- For those Wage slaves who Live in NYC but are not corporate sponsored, which doesn't mean you don't work for the corps. Reviewed every year or at the request of the NYPD or MDC.
---Blue with White stripe: Live and work in NYC
---Blue with Red stripe: Live in NYC but work outside of it.
Temporary passes- Everyone else if your a legal. Reviewed by pass type or by request of the NYPD or MDC.
---Red: Those who live outside the city but work in it. Reviewed every 6 months.
---Red with Grey stripe: Guest card. Reveiwed once a month and you should have applied for your red one by then.
Corporate Special Guests- These function as cards above but get reviewed every 6 months.
---Grey: Functions as White.
---Grey with Red stripe: Functions as Blue.
Restricted or Criminal Pass- These are given to felons or those who have committed 5 misdemeanors within a 5 year period. Also know as a right to hassle card. Reviewed every 5 years.
---Black with a White stripe: Resident criminal
---Black with a Blue stripe: Working class criminal
---Black with a Red stripe: Temporary criminal
---Black with a Grey stripe: Corporate sponsored criminal.
Not only does your pass count as your ID but it is also your credstick in New York. All IDs have a dot on the pass to indicate the level of credstick but they didn't tell you what the dot colors are. White passes are either Platinum or Gold equivalents, blue or red are either Silver or Standard, and gray runs the range from Standard to Platinum, depending on the wishes of the sponsoring Corp. Blacks are always Standard. Since they have added an Ebony level to credit accounts and have changed the way credsticks work I have added Ebony to the White pass and just use this to indicate the account given to you with your pass by citigroup since they sit on the MDC it made since to me. This does not stop you from using outside funds from another bank but it is logged at any citigroup terminal that you did so. To avoid this datatrail most Runners request to be paid via a certified credstick and though not able to be used everywhere can get them what they want through a fixer.
So that is the pass situation in NYC. I know that this is information in a SR book but the info is out of date and way out of print so I don't think i crossed a line posting it here for other NYC GM to use, if that is not the case please say so and I will remove this post haste.
Thanks,
Red
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Not only does your pass count as your ID but it is also your credstick in New York.
I would assume that just like credsticks, these passes would be think of the past in 2072 and your pass info is just broadcasted by your commlink along with your SIN info.
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Yes according to rotten apple it is part of your profile and must be displayed at all times, while in NYC. they even have a process for determining if someone is in Hidden mode and dispatch officers to the seen if someone is. It's basically illegal to be in Hidden mode anywhere in NYC. Of course in the terminal or the pit they don't really enforce that or many other laws. the only thing I am changeing is that it is not a credstick but an account given to pass holders by Citigroup. many of the things presented in the Neo-A's guide are outdated, but you can get info out of there to use with the Rotten apple supplement to give a more rounded look at NYC. Until they give more info in 4th that is.
Red
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Or part of the Lifestyle. I mean, driver's license has to be part of the vehicle maintenance...
Good idea to take into account the lifestyle. I don't think I'll refuse driver's licence to a SINner player with lifestyle under "low" but for some others licences it can be determinant.
This seems like a good guideline.
What sort of lifestyle/qualities etc would justify a SINner PC having a firearms license though? This is the OP question.
I can imagine someone with a good background from Law Enforcement or something might be legit, but I can't think of any actual qualities that would justify it (don't have my books handy. Damned work intruding on my gaming life!)
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Or part of the Lifestyle. I mean, driver's license has to be part of the vehicle maintenance...
Good idea to take into account the lifestyle. I don't think I'll refuse driver's licence to a SINner player with lifestyle under "low" but for some others licences it can be determinant.
I'd go a different route; Driver's licenses are part of a SIN (real or fake), as they're a form of ID that in most cases isn't renewed on a monthly (or even yearly basis). If the Law pulls a runner over how is the Law going to determine if the runner is legally allowed to operate a vehicle? If you go by lifestyle...there's nothing tied to that. Lifestyle can be paying under the table or with bartered goods/services (even for Luxury levels as in "I work for the Yaks, they let me use this penthouse") just as much as legally owning property. But if it's ownership...that's tied to an ID (SSN, Driver's License, etc...all 2070's form of SIN). Lifestyle equals basic needs (and the quality to which they are met) for the character, ID/SINs equal what rights, privileges, and restraints governmental society allows/imposes upon the character.
If a character gets a fake SIN (and I heavily push that on my players at character creation) then I go with "a license to operate basic vehicles is included with that." And if I ever get to the point where the PCs have been running the shadows for over 5 years and haven't had to ditch their fake SINs then I can pull them over and have the cops say, "looks like your driver's license is expired, ma'am." BAM! BAM! BAM! (cause when I was fifteen and first playing Shadowrun all the cops ever did was say, "Halt!" shoot three times to kill then, "or I'll shoot!")
I'm actually disappointed that there are no guidelines for making legal purchases anywhere in the source books. I mean, come on, some of us actually do take the SINner quality! What does a legal gun license cost? It should certainly be a lot less than the 600 big ones a decent fake will run you.
I agree, I'd like to see a general "legit" license cost list. In older SR, for pistols it was 200¥ for a permit to own a pistol and ¥500 to transport/carry it, rifles were 300¥/600¥, but assault rifles were just listed as needing a corporate or security license (no listed cost...though it might be hiding in other sections) (Shadowtech, pg. 103). So based on those older costs...fake licenses should cost more (though with the SR4A cost being rating x 100¥ it's comparable not outrageous).
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I'd go a different route; Driver's licenses are part of a SIN (real or fake) ...
The idea was to determine the legal licences owned by a SINner at creation. If a character has a very low lifestyle there's no reason to give him a licence linked to a very expensive activity. Licences will be part of the official SIN.
For illegal licences, rules exists.
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*BUMP*
What sort of lifestyle/qualities etc would justify a SINner PC having a firearms license though? This is the OP question.
I can imagine someone with a good background from Law Enforcement or something might be legit, but I can't think of any actual qualities that would justify it (don't have my books handy. Damned work intruding on my gaming life!)
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Firearms permits would go with the gray jobs in Shadowrun. Private Investigator, freelance security, actual security (dayjob), nature guide on awakened lands, licensed gunsmiths, or gun collectors. There isn't much said about professional speed shooting or trap shooting as a sport but a licensed player could have many tricked out guns. Might even have a Johnson hire a runner to have a shooting competition against other shootists. A Topshot of the Johnson set. It could be a interesting change of pace to have rules to be played by, actually to only appear to be played by, and many skills competitions.
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Shadowtech actually has prices listed for a wide variety of licenses, as well as the penalties & fines for not having them. I use these as guidelines for my SINner players if they want to keep things on the up and up with the Star/Knights.
Weapon Permits pertaining to John Q. Citizen
Class A: Small Bladed Weapon, under 18 centimeters (no cost listed)
Class B: Large Bladed Weapon, cutting edge over 18cm $100 for possession, $250 for transport
Class C: Blunt Weapon, includes clubs, batons and all shock weapons (no cost listed)
Class D: Projectile Weapons (spears, bows, crossbows) $125 for possession, $300 for transport
Class E: Pistol $200 for possession, $500 for transport
Class F: Rifle $300 for possession, $600 for transport
I hope that helps
-BTL
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Shadowtech actually has prices listed for a wide variety of licenses, as well as the penalties & fines for not having them. I use these as guidelines for my SINner players if they want to keep things on the up and up with the Star/Knights.
Weapon Permits pertaining to John Q. Citizen
Class A: Small Bladed Weapon, under 18 centimeters (no cost listed)
Class B: Large Bladed Weapon, cutting edge over 18cm $100 for possession, $250 for transport
Class C: Blunt Weapon, includes clubs, batons and all shock weapons (no cost listed)
Class D: Projectile Weapons (spears, bows, crossbows) $125 for possession, $300 for transport
Class E: Pistol $200 for possession, $500 for transport
Class F: Rifle $300 for possession, $600 for transport
I hope that helps
-BTL
These are all just transport licenses though (which in Australia only covers moving these things around in nicely packaged gun cases).
What about the equivalent of a rent-a-cop's 'License to carry' which is the more important issue for a Shadowrunner.
Further more, there's the License to carry a Concealed weapon, which is more important for PI's etc.
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These are all just transport licenses though (which in Australia only covers moving these things around in nicely packaged gun cases).
What about the equivalent of a rent-a-cop's 'License to carry' which is the more important issue for a Shadowrunner.
Further more, there's the License to carry a Concealed weapon, which is more important for PI's etc.
The Transport license in Shadowtech is a carry license. It does not give specifics as to open or concealed.
Shadowtech p 105
Possession : The owning or carrying of equipment or weapons designated as restricted access.
Transport: The act of carrying or transporting said items, either on one's person or in a vehicle.
In my state of Florida we have permits for conceal carry. Open carry is only for law enforcement officers. As long as we keep the guns and ammo in cases and are separate from each other we can move them around in our vehicles, provided we are doing something like going hunting, going to the gun range, etc no permit is required. Laws vary by state in the US, I think the possession and transport license was listed for completeness with that in mind. Some states require permits to buy & own with separate licenses for conceal/open carry. Some states don't. Your mileage may vary.
I was simply quoting an in game resource that answered his question. It's also stated that these are UCAS laws. I interpret them as permit to own a gun or rifle and a separate license for carry/transport. I understand things may be different in the land of Drop Bears. Personally I'd love to see an up to date listing in game for different countries and the legality of certain good. Vice makes mention in the shadow talk about some things are perfectly fine and legal in one country and in another you'll get dragged through the town square as an example to others. I think I heard something about Singapore banning bubble gum and some country in Africa banning flatulence in public. The world is full of wacky laws that I'd love to utilize to screw with my players.
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The Transport license in Shadowtech is a carry license. It does not give specifics as to open or concealed.
..SNIP...
I was simply quoting an in game resource that answered his question. It's also stated that these are UCAS laws. I interpret them as permit to own a gun or rifle and a separate license for carry/transport. I understand things may be different in the land of Drop Bears. Personally I'd love to see an up to date listing in game for different countries and the legality of certain good. Vice makes mention in the shadow talk about some things are perfectly fine and legal in one country and in another you'll get dragged through the town square as an example to others. I think I heard something about Singapore banning bubble gum and some country in Africa banning flatulence in public. The world is full of wacky laws that I'd love to utilize to screw with my players.
You did good :)
The land of Drop Bears is damn harsh on gun laws (see exhibits <A> (http://www.ema.gov.au/www/agd/agd.nsf/Page/Firearmsregulation_Firearmsregulation)and <B> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia)). It's near impossible to get a legal permit for a handgun (except limited caliber sport-pistols)., and Semi-Auto rifles are likewise banned for civilians.
Can't buy a BB gun or slingshot off the street. How's that for strict?
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Seems decidedly anti-Australian too.
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Very British Commonwealth, however. In England, a store was shut down with a massive police investigation because someone found: One bullet.
An old, and very common caliber. It was in a very hard to reach place, and could have been in the shop, literally, since World War I for all they were able to tell.
Canada's working on moving on the same idea, but is doing a much poorer job of it. I think we have the USA to thank for SOMETHING after all. :P
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Very British Commonwealth, however. In England, a store was shut down with a massive police investigation because someone found: One bullet.
An old, and very common caliber. It was in a very hard to reach place, and could have been in the shop, literally, since World War I for all they were able to tell.
Canada's working on moving on the same idea, but is doing a much poorer job of it. I think we have the USA to thank for SOMETHING after all. :P
I'm not surprised.
As a school kid many years ago, I found a .22 bullet (Possibly live, definitely whole) near my school bus stop in a nice quiet suburb. There was a police investigation within minutes...
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Where I grew up, barely noticed. All depends on where you live.
And I moved to a Murder Capital. ???
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Very British Commonwealth, however. In England, a store was shut down with a massive police investigation because someone found: One bullet.
An old, and very common caliber. It was in a very hard to reach place, and could have been in the shop, literally, since World War I for all they were able to tell.
Canada's working on moving on the same idea, but is doing a much poorer job of it. I think we have the USA to thank for SOMETHING after all. :P
I'm not surprised.
As a school kid many years ago, I found a .22 bullet (Possibly live, definitely whole) near my school bus stop in a nice quiet suburb. There was a police investigation within minutes...
That's hilarious, because I actually found a loaded, sawed-off shotgun.. DISCARDED AND FORGOTTEN ON A CITY STREET.
I'm a little out of touch with local news, but I do not recall any significant arrests or the like being announced after that discovery.
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Again, depends on where you live.
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That's hilarious, because I actually found a loaded, sawed-off shotgun.. DISCARDED AND FORGOTTEN ON A CITY STREET.
I'm a little out of touch with local news, but I do not recall any significant arrests or the like being announced after that discovery.
:o ..... did you turn it over to the police or pick it up, wipe it for prints, conceal it, and lived happy up to this point with a throw away shotgun.
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Very British Commonwealth, however. In England, a store was shut down with a massive police investigation because someone found: One bullet.
An old, and very common caliber. It was in a very hard to reach place, and could have been in the shop, literally, since World War I for all they were able to tell.
Canada's working on moving on the same idea, but is doing a much poorer job of it. I think we have the USA to thank for SOMETHING after all. :P
I'm not surprised.
As a school kid many years ago, I found a .22 bullet (Possibly live, definitely whole) near my school bus stop in a nice quiet suburb. There was a police investigation within minutes...
I have .22 bullets in my junk drawer. And both my kids know where my rifles, shotguns, and handguns are. The ammo is somewhere else under lock and key but I take them out regularly to the gun range, so they know exactly what guns do and why they aren't toys.
But I work for a school district so I'm always careful to discuss firearms away from work :D
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I have .22 bullets in my junk drawer. And both my kids know where my rifles, shotguns, and handguns are. The ammo is somewhere else under lock and key but I take them out regularly to the gun range, so they know exactly what guns do and why they aren't toys.
But I work for a school district so I'm always careful to discuss firearms away from work :D
I lived in the US for a while, and am quite comfortable with firearms from my own use (and will one day educate my very young kids about the do's and don'ts). But unless you live on a farm in regional Australia (where it's permanently Rabbit/Kangaroo season) or join the military, the average Joe could live their entire life here and never see a real-life rifle/shotgun
You'd be even more hard-pressed to ever see a handgun except on the hip of a Security guard or police officer.
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Man that is so crazy to me :P It's hard to imagine. I've always lived in the south though, maybe people from DC or New York could imagine it better.
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Man that is so crazy to me :P It's hard to imagine. I've always lived in the south though, maybe people from DC or New York could imagine it better.
Could be worse... in England, even the general beat-cops don't carry firearms...
'Stop! Or I'll say 'Stop' again!
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Man that is so crazy to me :P It's hard to imagine. I've always lived in the south though, maybe people from DC or New York could imagine it better.
Could be worse... in England, even the general beat-cops don't carry firearms...
'Stop! Or I'll say 'Stop' again!
They've started to issue pistols in England.
Hell, they've started to issue SMGs to MOUNTIES! (Only in Ottawa, IIRC.).
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Man that is so crazy to me :P It's hard to imagine. I've always lived in the south though, maybe people from DC or New York could imagine it better.
Different Worlds, different worlds. As an Australia, the idea of guns everywhere is so strange. Sure, I've seen security and cops with handguns on their belts, and once I went out west (way, way, west) and a farmer friend of my family took us on a trip to see his property... and shot a couple of roos for his dogs' dinner with a... um... .22?
But if I saw guns in the hands of private citizens, I would freak out a bit. How dangerious is that? Its okay in movies and fiction, but real life? Scary stuff...
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See I prefer it. I see a story about a school shooting and think, man, if a teacher had weapons training and a concealed handgun, we could have had some lives saved.
Especially at colleges. We had a kid go nuts at a college, and the students/faculty were just waiting in rooms for him to walk down the hall and into each room in turn and start blasting away. Most didn't even bother to hide, just stood there waiting.
That kind of mentality is far more scary to me than someone with a gun.
Hm, I wonder what wallaby tastes like. I've had snake, gator, croc, and nutria, but no kangaroos around here to try :D
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I always wondered why body armor wasn't more in vogue. Maybe even subsidized.
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I'm not sure how legal it is to own really. I'm not sure if Joe Schmoe could buy it somewhere, but I have something to check tomorrow at work ;)
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See I prefer it. I see a story about a school shooting and think, man, if a teacher had weapons training and a concealed handgun, we could have had some lives saved.
Israel had a school shooting stopped by a off-duty soldier who was in the middle of a class.
Just stood up, drew his sidearm, shot the bugger dead, went back to the books.
Legally disarming people only disarms law abiding people. Criminals and nutbars tend not to obey laws, go figure.
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I don't even know where to shop for body armor, or how they're regulated.
You know, I can sorta see the reducing supply argument, but I don't think it'd work in America; too many already floating around, it's like having AK-47s in a third world country.
Used to be more into the firearms thing, but frankly, I can't really take a stand anymore, I'm just too poor to afford that sort of thing.
Umm...are we getting off topic?
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I dug around in my old books last night a little bit, but couldn't find what I was looking for.
I wanted to see if Permits were more available/legal in CAS vs UCAS, considering the CAS states were mostly southern states with looser gun laws pre-awakening.
Alas I got tired and went too bed before I spent alot of time looking.
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That's hilarious, because I actually found a loaded, sawed-off shotgun.. DISCARDED AND FORGOTTEN ON A CITY STREET.
I'm a little out of touch with local news, but I do not recall any significant arrests or the like being announced after that discovery.
:o ..... did you turn it over to the police or pick it up, wipe it for prints, conceal it, and lived happy up to this point with a throw away shotgun.
I had no way of knowing if it was used at the scene of a crime, so I turned it over. Also, at the time, I owned a shotgun that was a little more sturdy looking than that thing.
This incident took place in the Mississippi Gulf Coast.