[Always Overkill]

My brother is currently working on a Shadorun campaign set in around 2063, in an alternate timeline where Dunkelzahn survived the explosion of his limo following his election for President of the UCAS. I am curious to hear some more knowledgeable SR fans' opinions on what the fallout of this massive change in the timeline would be; in particular the immediate fallout in the 4-5 years directly following his election.

Any thoughts on the matter would be regarded with the utmost gratitude.

-Always Overkill

[Michael Chandra]

Given how Dunkelzahn suicided with a reason, you'd probably be dealing with Aztlan being partially taken over by scarier things than the bugs. Maybe they'd become a Shedim-wielding nation.

[CanRay]

Shedim-Wielding Expansionist Empire with a AAA-Megacorporation at the helm owned by worse things that Shedim. 

[Crimsondude]

My brother is currently working on a Shadorun campaign set in around 2063, in an alternate timeline where Dunkelzahn survived the explosion of his limo following his election for President of the UCAS. I am curious to hear some more knowledgeable SR fans' opinions on what the fallout of this massive change in the timeline would be; in particular the immediate fallout in the 4-5 years directly following his election.

Any thoughts on the matter would be regarded with the utmost gratitude.

-Always Overkill

Survived it, or it never happened?

If he survived, domestic political pressure and pressure from Damien Knight and others would have insisted upon a public retaliation based on some excuse. Given the times, I'd just assume a massive public crackdown on bug spirits.

Renraku and Fuchi wouldn't have nearly destroyed each other.

Fuchi would still exist.

CATCo would not have become a AAA.

Wuxing would not have become a AAA.

The Japanacorp bloc would've remained intact because Yamatetsu wouldn't have the strength to survive the move to Russia and so it'd either be forced to remain in Japan, or the combined abilities of Shiawase, MCT, Renraku, and Fuchi would've devoured Yamatetsu (which does not have the guaranteed Corporate Court seat those four have). I'd just as soon say that Yamatetsu doesn't exist.

Renraku would've still advanced computer tech and become a huge competitor to Fuchi because of Leonardo's tech, but might not have lost that edge (overtaking Fuchi as the #2 corp behind S-K) because of Deus because Deus's emergence could've been prevented or contained as it happened at the same time as the Corp Court case and the two megas were moving forces and about to break out into full-scale war.

Deus may not have emerged, and if it did it may not have sustained the shutdown long enough to escape. Though this also depends on whether it lasted as long because it took so long to set up the Network or if Deus was just waiting for Inazo Aneki to leave Tiber. If Dunk lived, he wouldn't have been given the gloves that let him enter Tibet. So he may have been taken sooner or killed. The latter would've stopped the escape almost entirely.

No Draco Foundation. No DIMR.

Ehran remains on the Tir Tairngire Council of Princes.

UCAS improves relations with the NAN.

No Ghostwalker.

Aztlan remains in Denver.

Aztlan/Aztechnology would have had similar upheavals ousting the Oscuro faction as followed, especially with Dunk able to directly pressure and attack whatever would remain.

Alamais may have succeeded in assassinating Lofwyr and nuking Berlin in 2062? 63? I forget.

Lofwyr's death would be a Hell of a lot more earth-shattering than Dunkelzahn's death.

The most direct I can think of is that Nachtmeister would have lived, and the entire Shockwaves plot wouldn't occur.


Much of the fallout from events in Year of the Comet would've been tempered or may not have occurred at all.


I assume Dunkelzahn would be re-elected in 2060.


I think that's about it up to 2063.

[Longshot23]

Might be worth an e-book, even if it would take time and brainpower away from line development.

Say, like /dev/grrl cracks into the private data stores of Nadja Daviar and Ehran the Scribe, and shares [some of] what she found - that type of thing.

[Caradoc]

Since Dunkelzahn is the Great and Wonderful Dragon and is going to live for millennia, the 22nd Amendment gets repealed and he is still President of the UCAS in 2075 and likely to be the Prez for a long, long time.

As Crimsondude notes, the Draco Foundation and DIMR do not exist and therefore no bounty on Blood and Toxic Mages - they'll be a bigger problem than they are now. Also, without the Draco Foundation, would the Artifacts Rush still happen?

All those goodies in Dunkelzahn's Will didn't get distributed and many are probably still unrevealed. Lot of events to get hold of these items would never have happened. Would Lofwyr still be in Tir Tairgire if he didn't get the Jewel of Memory in Dunkelzahn's Will, become the Loremaster and leave in 2062 to create Saeder-Krupp?

The media want to interview the First Lady, whoever she turns out to be, and what her plans are for redecorating the White House... 

[DeathStrobe]

Crash 2.0 would never happen and  thus no Technomancers, and no wireless Matrix. Art Dankwalther would never gotten his billions and become one of the single largest threats to the Corporate Court. Like wise, the NovaTech IPO would have never been forced. Which would not have forced Deus to attempt to compile himself from the Network in the Boston Stock Exchange. Basically, System Failure could not have happened.

I don't know. The entire world goes mad. Dogs living with Cats, and the end of Western Civilization as we know it.

[Crimsondude]

Since Dunkelzahn is the Great and Wonderful Dragon and is going to live for millennia, the 22nd Amendment gets repealed and he is still President of the UCAS in 2075 and likely to be the Prez for a long, long time.

The UCAS Constitution never incorporated the 22nd Amendment, nor was a similar amendment ever made to the UCAS Constitution. This has always been possible (The UCAS had a three-term President, and Haeffner/Daviar was seeking a third term in 2064

As Crimsondude notes, the Draco Foundation and DIMR do not exist and therefore no bounty on Blood and Toxic Mages - they'll be a bigger problem than they are now. Also, without the Draco Foundation, would the Artifacts Rush still happen?

The bounties may have arguably been instituted as UCAS law rather than as a private bounty. I assume there have already been bounties in existence for bug shamans since 2055.


I don't know if Ares would've carried out Operation: Extermination and then evacuated, leaving the UCAS and Illinois to fend for themselves if Damien Knight's BFF were in the Oval Office. Though it would've been interesting if he participated (assuming the Strain III didn't give him what would essentially be dragon cancer).

That is a good point about the Artifact Rush, especially since it was most important to an off-table player (Ghostwalker). But those pieces were still desired if knowledge of their existence were ever discovered. One such group would be those master shedim that managed to cross onto this plane before Ghostwalker arrived through the Rift—and thereby allowed all master shedim direct access to their home plane to summon more shedim.

All those goodies in Dunkelzahn's Will didn't get distributed and many are probably still unrevealed. Lot of events to get hold of these items would never have happened. Would Lofwyr still be in Tir Tairgire if he didn't get the Jewel of Memory in Dunkelzahn's Will, become the Loremaster and leave in 2062 to create Saeder-Krupp?

I should have elaborated.

In Ragnarock, Lofwyr only survived Alamais's assassination attempt because he saw it coming from gazing into the Jewel of Memory.

I don't think Dunkelzahn had any sense of ... concern ... for the fallout that would've resulted, and thereby wouldn't have warned Lofwyr.

Imagine it: The world's largest megacorporation completely decapitated and legally without any owner. I don't think the rest of the Corporate Court/Big Seven (or however many there'd have been without CATCo, Wuxing, and Yamatetsu, but with others possibly replacing one, two, or all three) would easily accept the draconic concept of "Eat what you kill" when what was killed was controlled of their biggest competitor. Assuming Alamais even wanted control of S-K (I don't think he did).

I don't know what German intestacy law looks like, let alone the fictional AGS, but I assume the Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex government, if not the AGS itself, would want to make a claim if there were no surviving heir. One would presume the Corporate Court would simply step in and take control, but that would only last as long as each AAA could strip as much of S-K for themselves as possible.


Or, well, let's be honest: That law doesn't exist because we haven't had occasion to write it (I don't think). Whichever you'd want to choose, it would be brutal.

The media want to interview the First Lady, whoever she turns out to be, and what her plans are for redecorating the White House... 

I would say that's Daviar, but she would have been his Chief of Staff. That office would simply be empty.

[Ragnarok]

IMO, if Big D survived his assassination, I think that most of the events would have occurred, (especially Crash 2.0), and thus technomancers, sprites, and AIs would still have happened.

[Crimsondude]

It doesn't matter.

My brother is currently working on a Shadowrun campaign set in around 2063
...
what the fallout of this massive change in the timeline would be; in particular the immediate fallout in the 4-5 years directly following his election.

If we move on past 2063, a shitload of things change. If Alamais and/or Nachtmeister kill Lofwyr that year instead of Dunk dying in 2057, then we've got a whole new game.

But just going back to my previous post, pushing up Deus's escape or locking it in the SCIRE permanently (or at least for longer until it could replicate Aneki's brain pattern) changes all the players later involved in Crash 2.0 either in fact or motivation. Ronin, Pax, and/or Puck may not have ever survived.

No Pax --> No Jormungandr --> no Crash 2.0. At most the Matrix would've merely been crippled when the routing hubs are nuked.

No Ronin --> no Maegera. No Network divide.

No Puck --> no ECSE Jormungandr egg --> No Jormungandr virus  as Deus Emerges to battle Mirage and Maegera before the virus crashes them all/the Boston nuke goes off.

[witchdoctor]

This is all with the assumption that dunkelzahn would have the time to deal with all these issues. Being the president of the UCAS can't be an easy job, some of these events may have well happened anyway because they were pushed way down his to do list after him trying to stop the horrors from showing up early and eating everyone.

[Crimsondude]

The only way this idea works is if the Horrors connection becomes a dead plot through some other means.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

I'm curious.  Why do you think that if Ronin didn't exist/survive, Morgan/Megaera wouldn't have?

[Ragnarok]

The only way this idea works is if the Horrors connection becomes a dead plot through some other means.

I would've been fine with that...not a fan of ED anyway, so any ED plot holes being dead-ended would be great.

[Crimsondude]

I'm curious.  Why do you think that if Ronin didn't exist/survive, Morgan/Megaera wouldn't have?

I guess Dodger would've played a role in reviving her eventually, but he just couldn't do it in the same way that Ronin could. He was a member of the Network, and his special snowflakeness is partly how I understood the break to even begin manifesting. Without him, the division in the Network would've been leaderless and rudderless long enough for Deus and Pax to get it under control by whatever means necessary.

The only way this idea works is if the Horrors connection becomes a dead plot through some other means.

I would've been fine with that...not a fan of ED anyway, so any ED plot holes being dead-ended would be great.

Agreed. I'm glad the connection is ... diminished.

I've come to enjoy treating various immortals as mythological gods, though. That's fun. So to that extent I guess not everything from those days are gone for good.