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Character Contacts

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justkelly

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« on: <08-12-14/2138:13> »
So, you build a character to play in mission games.  You come up with a story for that character with contacts, and then you only seem to get new contacts from actual play.  Can a Mission character use Karma to increase the connection/loyalty of a starting contact, or to establish new contacts relevant to their personal growth.  For example, the decker starts out with a fixer and a techie contact within a Corp due to prior employment (may or may not have the quality from the employment).  After time goes by, the contacts get used, and they meet new people; perhaps the fixers' "business" expands and their connection should be higher.  Can karma be used to buy the new contact or increase the loyalty/connection of the established contact?


To be clear, this question is for the character's personal life contacts, not the contacts met through a Mission game.
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ZeConster

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« Reply #1 on: <08-12-14/2219:00> »
Karma can never be used post-chargen to improve contacts - however, Missions does allow for a non-Missions contact's Loyalty to increase through positive interaction (GM discretion).

Tarislar

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« Reply #2 on: <08-13-14/1710:57> »
Missions or not,  I really would like to see rules for improving contacts in game play.

The Masked Ferret

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« Reply #3 on: <08-15-14/0649:27> »
Missions or not,  I really would like to see rules for improving contacts in game play.

As ZeConster said, it is possible to improve a contacts Loyalty in game in missions. There are not yet any rules for improving  Connection.

In a home game, I would allow it, if, for example, you managed to make your Fearless Hindi Cab Driver contact the owner of all the cab franchises in the city, I would say that that increases his Connection. But that would be in a home game.
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Bull

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« Reply #4 on: <08-19-14/1650:42> »
Yeah, generally Connection isn't going to change much, under normal circumstances, because it's determined by that NPC's job, status, ability, etc.  It *is* possible for it to change in some ways, and in a home game could even be the focus of some adventures, as Masked Ferret suggests.  But for Missions it's simply outside the scope of things.

For in-play, Loyalty can be changed.  Missions does it somewhat automatically by doing jobs and such for the Story Contacts, but it is possible to raise your personal contacts (the non-Story Contacts) as well.  I would suggest going out of your way to treat the Contact well each game (buying expensive gifts, overpaying for information, asking if they need help, etc.) and letting the GM know that your intention is to try and increase your loyalty.  It won't always work, but it shouldn;t always work.  I'd also suggest tracking how often you have raised it and letting your GM know that as well, as you shouldn't be able to necessarily raise your loyalty really fast (It should be fairly gradually).  But it will be up to individual GMs to handle, as this is more of a Roleplay element.  Please be sure not to try taking a ton of game tome for this though, as Missions is usually under a time crunch anyway.

Fedifensor

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« Reply #5 on: <08-20-14/2017:50> »
This could be done as a Mission reward, for either Connection or Loyalty.  The rationale is that the PCs help out an NPC that is one of the movers and shakers of the Shadowrun world, and put in a good word for their Contact.  This could either increase the contact's Connection (by giving them an in with one of the big players) or their Loyalty (you help the Contact out, and they're more likely to help you out).  Improving a Season 5 Contact would have to be Loyalty only, so my Matt Wrath has the same Connection as everyone else's Matt Wrath.  Player-created Contacts should be able to raise either, up to a defined maximum.

Of course, this shouldn't happen often - if it happens, it should be at the end of a major plot arc.

justkelly

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« Reply #6 on: <09-23-14/0232:48> »
So here is another question regarding contacts....

Characters max out with 7 points between connection and loyalty, with max of 6 on connection during creation.  How can a character acquire a contact with a connection higher than 6, if not earned during a Mission?  Can "new" contacts be purchased with karma after creation?

Game mechanics allow for connections up to 12, so I would hope that somehow a Missions character could evenutally get a higher than 6 connected contact.

I have to wonder if some of our current Mission contacts are using a lower connection rating versus what the table SR5 387 would imply their influence to truly be. 

For example, Perianwyr (connection 6) seems to have international impacts and influence which using the table would imply a connection of perhaps 10:

"Well-connected worldwide, with significant social influence; a senior executive in a small national government or a AA megacorporation."

For the contacts in the 2013 and 2014 CMPs, I would speculate many are under connected due their influence a job offers that cross-continents and countries.

This is just my opinion of course which simply comes from wondering how to actually use the connection ratings above the character creation level max.
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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #7 on: <09-23-14/0500:29> »
How can a character acquire a contact with a connection higher than 6, if not earned during a Mission?
You can't. Only way to get one is by them being part of a Mission, you doing an excellent job and the contact wanting to do business with you in the future.

Perianwyr isn't as well-connected as you would think though, he's rather limited in many ways. It's easy to assume a dragon has big pull, but if they can only make things happen in fringe cases their connection isn't that special. Someone who can basically only influence several dozen nightclubs? Not that impressive. Heck, I looked at Urubia, with her 100b assets, and I cannot justify giving her more than Connection 5 despite it all, because her only real political pull is within Redmond. Likewise for Kalanyr, fun that he made some smart deals and can backstab people and cause earthquakes, but he rather lacks an actual powerbase.

Just to make that clear: I cannot justify, to myself as GM and even to my mother as neutral advisor, why Urubia should have higher Connection than, or even the same as, the right hand of the Mafia boss of Seattle. Jimmy Mac I consider a 6, Urubia a 5. A dragon with >100b in assets has less influence than someone who cannot even become Capo of Seattle.

Meanwhile, the corp-dudes cannot simply reach out to another corpslave's jurisdiction and cause stuff to happen there, because it'd piss the other off who would complain to the corp for violating the rules.

Leaving that aside, I strongly suspect there won't be a higher-than-6 contact in Missions any time soon. The reason is simple: Missions is meant to be a lower-level campaign where newbies can easily fit in and tag along. A single "No-Availability-Limitation" favor for a run is one thing, having a run provide you with a contact you can use to easily get all the expensive stuff is not only imbalanced because it makes the powerful items too easily available, it also puts too big a gap between the newbies and the lucky vets.



Back to increasing your Loyalty/Connection with contacts outside Missions: I strongly recommend against the idea of karma for that. Simply paying experience without any roleplaying hardly seems like the way to get an NPC to like you more. Do good business with them, do jobs for them, and maybe there will be a storyline where your team does a few jobs and the guy's power base expands if you do it right. The idea that someone blindly likes you far more just because you paid experience points, not even hard cold cash but experience points? Sorry but that doesn't fly with me.

An example: I sent a team on a job to rescue a teen from her kidnappers after dad paid ransom multiple times already and was starting to bleed dry. One of the runners contacted Tosh to help with intel and join in on the job, negotiating a decent wage for him from the other runners. Tosh managed to use his connections to get most of the previously-paid ransom back, allowing himself and the team to get a bigger reward from the Johnson than they would have gotten had they only kept the final ransom sum. Tosh was real happy with that outcome and his Loyalty rose.

Connection is used for a few things. A higher Connection makes a contact harder to reach, he can find more info when asking around, is better at networking, and that's pretty much it. The Social Limit bonus is rather irrelevant after the first few points after all. The erronous dicepool bonus has been errata'd out. So honestly, a high-Connection contact is only useful when a GM makes it useful, through either houserules or noting that your runners are so far from home only this contact is capable of helping them. Which means a Connection 7+ contact isn't as big a deal as you might think, outside Missions rules.

However, how you might get one is simple. As your runners play and grow, they get stronger, better, and earn a reputation. If this reputation is good enough, then yes sooner or later someone will reach out to them. Someone who secretly has a lot of pull and sends them on a really dangerous job, and if they impress them, yes they may score them as a Loyalty 1 contact. But you'll need a big reputation for that, with the ability to take on PR5&PR6 teams fast, the ability to stay out of The Law's hands, the ability to look at a couple of Force 8 Spirits or a dozen Hellhounds and go "alright, let's rock".

Take a look at Brothers United. If your team is capable of getting through an SR5 equivalent of that, including with the Pushing The Envelope doubling of Hybrid Ants at the end, without anyone dying or Burning Edge, then they are at the level for a Connection-9 individual to hire them. Perhaps for that exact job.
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coolgrafix

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« Reply #8 on: <12-03-14/1444:52> »
I run Missions content at my home game for (mostly) Missions-legal characters. Its made clear to the players that the characters aren't Missions-legal. So the group played through several Season 4 Missions, converted to Season 5 and SR5, and I did not make them retire their characters. They simply rebuilt the characters using SR5 rules with some extra karma and raised availability limits. This meant they kept their Season 4 contacts like Tosh and MacCallister. Problem there, which I didn't realize until recently, is the connection ratings are out of scale. Season 4/SR4 used the 1-6 scale, while Season 5/SR5 uses the 1-12 scale. So it made sense to simply double the connection rating on the legacy contacts. MacCallister's connection 5 became a connection 10. That seems really high, but hey, that's the way the math works, though it could be argued that 9 is more appropriate. It could also be argued that there is no one-for-one translation and that they need to be restatted from scratch with the new scale. With this in mind, the contacts in Season 5 seem to have VERY low connection ratings. Perianwyr is an example with his 5, but there's also Juan Xihuitl with his 5. WTH? If I was guessing I'd say that the authors simply forgot that the scale was now capped at 12. What is guidance here?
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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #9 on: <12-03-14/1455:22> »
Just because the scale has double the top-end doesn't mean you should double their Connection. They really should just have remained the same. I kept Bull at 5 in my campaign due to his focus and priorities. When you hit six your influence is already past a single city and state-wide already. Bull is Seattle-only so he wouldn't go past 5, if he also had significant influence with the Salish he'd be a six. A 10-Connection contact has massive worldwide influence, where he likely is already a big shot in a Megacorp, and last time I checked Bull was not that high up the food chain.

Now Perianwyr has friends all across the globe but they're all of low impact and mostly focused on music, so he won't be able to help runners much normally. He's not all-knowing with a massive spionage network that can get you any intel you want, nor is he capable of getting you any gun you want anywhere around the world. He just is a big shareholder in several music clubs, which is pretty much a moderate degree of social influence due to the specialized aspect that is rather scarce in comparison to someone who knows quite a few people inside a single city.

Besides, you ARE aware that chargen contacts are capped at 7 karma? The levels you want would be impossible at chargen.
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Tarislar

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« Reply #10 on: <12-04-14/2322:49> »
Just because the scale has double the top-end doesn't mean you should double their Connection. They really should just have remained the same. I kept Bull at 5 in my campaign due to his focus and priorities. When you hit six your influence is already past a single city and state-wide already. Bull is Seattle-only so he wouldn't go past 5, if he also had significant influence with the Salish he'd be a six. A 10-Connection contact has massive worldwide influence, where he likely is already a big shot in a Megacorp, and last time I checked Bull was not that high up the food chain.

Besides, you ARE aware that chargen contacts are capped at 7 karma? The levels you want would be impossible at chargen.

My GM did the same, just used them as is. 

Given the 7 limit you mentioned, I think the only thing that could be done with them would be to give a flat, across the board boost of +1 Connection to them all.
So Pip becomes a 2 while Bull/Laurent become 6's, etc etc.
It still won't make them too powerful but would represent the higher cap in 5E.
Mostly though I think it would be nice to have at least a couple of the cast who could, eventually, at max Loyalty (4), pull off 4 hits on the availability test to get gear up to 19 availability w/o having to increase payment (buy hits).

jim1701

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« Reply #11 on: <12-05-14/1314:07> »
Just because the scale has double the top-end doesn't mean you should double their Connection. They really should just have remained the same. I kept Bull at 5 in my campaign due to his focus and priorities. When you hit six your influence is already past a single city and state-wide already. Bull is Seattle-only so he wouldn't go past 5, if he also had significant influence with the Salish he'd be a six. A 10-Connection contact has massive worldwide influence, where he likely is already a big shot in a Megacorp, and last time I checked Bull was not that high up the food chain.

Besides, you ARE aware that chargen contacts are capped at 7 karma? The levels you want would be impossible at chargen.

My GM did the same, just used them as is. 

Given the 7 limit you mentioned, I think the only thing that could be done with them would be to give a flat, across the board boost of +1 Connection to them all.
So Pip becomes a 2 while Bull/Laurent become 6's, etc etc.
It still won't make them too powerful but would represent the higher cap in 5E.
Mostly though I think it would be nice to have at least a couple of the cast who could, eventually, at max Loyalty (4), pull off 4 hits on the availability test to get gear up to 19 availability w/o having to increase payment (buy hits).

I think in Missions they WANT it to be hard to get 19 avail stuff. 

The Masked Ferret

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« Reply #12 on: <12-06-14/0046:19> »
Missions is supposed to be a 'Low Power' campaign
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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #13 on: <12-06-14/0335:24> »
Yup. Meanwhile there is 1 connection 6 contact in a CMP, but at chargen you can pick between a bunch of fivers, plenty of options. Also a run in Firing Line with an availability favour.
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Tarislar

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« Reply #14 on: <12-06-14/1311:51> »
I think in Missions they WANT it to be hard to get 19 avail stuff. 

Missions is supposed to be a 'Low Power' campaign

Agreed, which is why I said it would take getting all the way to max-4 loyalty to pull it off which is 1/2 the length of the campaign.

Which doesn't take into account the cost for said Avail-19 item.  If its something expensive your likely not going to have the cash for it anyway.

I didn't play 4E so I don't know what a 5-Connection got you as far as Availability goes but given the higher connection ratings in 5E it seems like maybe they did a different formula or 4E had lower availability? 
Or did 5E just open up a tier of really uber higher connection ratings so that someone like "Pres of the UCAS" was not even in the realm of possible in 4E even at Connection-6?