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The Dragon-Reagent Murders

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Hsere

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« on: <03-19-12/0416:23> »
Just checking on something here -- so far as I know, there hasn't been much in the way of hints at who's behind the string of attacks on organizations suspected to be dealing in dragon-based reagents (p. 32-33, Conspiracy Theories).  I'm thinking about using them in my campaign, so I wanted to make sure I haven't missed anything in this regard.
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Mirikon

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« Reply #1 on: <03-19-12/0646:09> »
I dunno. It pretty much screams that this is the work of one (or more) of the war-with-humans-is-coming dragons and their minions. Given that a recent book mentions that after Alamais reappeared, with younger dragons in train, and then suddenly some people in the area who worked with dragon reagents went dead, I think Alamais is likely the one behind it.
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ArkangelWinter

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« Reply #2 on: <03-19-12/1229:31> »
Or someone timed it just right so they could scapegoat Alamais

Hsere

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« Reply #3 on: <03-19-12/1933:50> »
@Mirikon: That stuff about Alamais actually sounds familiar, now that you mention it.  Do you remember which book it was?

As for what I suspect; the only way one of the Great Dragons is actually responsible is if Sirrurg (or a like-minded dragon) is trying to goad metahumans into anti-dragon violence (like the Human Nation's attempted missile strike on Anjohibe). Probably to bring some of the fence-sitters over to his camp and isolate the likes of Hestaby and Masaru.  I highly doubt they're just doing it to directly discourage dragon reagent-dealing.  It seems too obvious, direct, and clumsy.  Plus it wouldn't gain them much of anything if dragon reagent-dealing ceased.

The other major possibility is that someone might be trying to exacerbate the tensions between metahumanity and dragonkind.  Specifically, I have the Black Lodge in mind.  We know they see elves as competition in their attempts at world domination, so it's not much of a stretch that they'd want to see dragons weakened or distracted as well.

Or, maybe the primary goal is actually grabbing some specific rare reagents the groups have, and the murders and apparent dragon-related threats are just a smoke-screen.  In that case, who's behind it is up in the air, as the list of parties willing to steal/kill to get powerful reagents is several miles long.

EDIT: \/ Thanks.
« Last Edit: <03-20-12/0305:17> by Hsere »
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Crimsondude

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« Reply #4 on: <03-19-12/2054:05> »
Alamais is mentioned in Street Legends and Jet Set.

Mirikon

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« Reply #5 on: <03-20-12/0154:11> »
Hsere, the Dragons take people using the bodies of other dracoforms for reagents VERY seriously. The whole reason Sirrurg is going after Aztlan like he is is because of the execution and autopsy/mutilation of Dzitbalchen and displaying his remains in a museum. It is almost certainly the result of one of the dragons getting revenge, through their minions.
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Hsere

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« Reply #6 on: <03-20-12/0343:05> »
^Not saying several of the Greats might not have an interest in shutting down the dragon-reagent trade, but I don't buy that the attacks are a GD trying to shut down the trade for a few reasons:

1. The main grievance they seem to have regarding Dzitbalchen's execution is that humans presumed to impose their laws upon one of them and executed him.  The autopsy was salt in the wound, but it seems like it was more the indignity of having it performed and broadcast than anything else.  Those are the big deals the GD's seem to be making, rather than the use of his body for reagents.   Hestaby's speech devotes all of half a paragraph to the fact that Aztlan hasn't handed over Dzitbalchen's remains, and she never even mentions its probable use for reagents.  She puts most of her emphasis on the execution itself and the subsequent autopsy/broadcast.  And in any case, there's a huge difference between this scenario and the use of talon clippings or shed scales from some dracoform to whom they have no direct relation, so I don't think we can extrapolate any of the dragons' general stance on dragon-reagents based on how they reacted to the Dzitbalchen debacle.

2. They've never, to our knowledge, taken action like this in the past.  Dragon-reagent dealing has been going on for decades.  If it were really that big a deal to them, I think we'd have seen a major effort to squash it far sooner than this.  Great Dragons, by and large, aren't the kind to let something to which they seriously object continue when they have the means to stop it.  Of course, it may be that they have been taking steps to stop the practice that we don't know about, which brings me to my third point:

3. Even if we knew for a fact that they were willing to devote significant resources to stopping the trade, this isn't how they'd do it.  They'd be utilizing more clandestine and effective means, rather than trying to scare people out of it with very visible attacks on the end of the supply chain.  They'd strike at the individuals and corporations actually engaging in the harvesting of dragon-reagents, either by crippling their infrastructure and killing their leadership through non-traceable means, or taking them over, also through hard-to-trace means.  Rather than the current string of attacks, we'd see the supply chain suddenly dry up as groups involved in providing dragon-reagents went out of business or disappeared.  The current attacks really only draw attention to themselves, and don't do much to address the core ability of humans to deal in the reagents.

The attacks could, however, easily exacerbate tension between dragons and humans, so any dragon might be behind them if that's their goal.
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Sichr

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« Reply #7 on: <03-20-12/0423:22> »
To me it seems something is trying to open way for another Horror attempt. The last one was stopped by unified efforts of Dragon(s), Humans and Immortals at that task...if someone manage to build walls between those parties, next attempt should be sucessfull...

Mirikon

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« Reply #8 on: <03-20-12/0953:55> »
Hsere, while you're correct that the main outrage was that Aztlan executed Dzitbalchen, that doesn't change the fact that displaying his remains in a museum isn't also an outrage. Just because you're mainly angry that someone killed your brother doesn't mean you're not going to be angry that they then dissected him, stuffed him, and then put him on display in their living room.

And yes, they have taken actions like this in the past. There used to be a fairly large group of dragon hunters. All the great dragons gathered together, and collectively acted to wipe them out. But just because the dragons haven't taken on dragon reagent networks before doesn't mean that one of the more extreme types wouldn't get fed up with things and decide to forcibly stop things. There are dragons who are outright hostile to metahumans as a whole. They are the ones who would be most likely to send people to stop this trade.

I'm not saying this is an act of all the greats. But it is almost certainly the act of one or maybe two of them. As for how to go about it, this is a clandestine approach. Talismongers and talisleggers working in dragon reagents have been 'disappearing'. And it is the talismongers who actually use the reagents, meaning if you eliminate them, then no one can work with the reagents. They're also the weakest link in the chain, as they tend to operate in cities, but travel to gather resources, meaning that there are many points of vulnerability.
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Bruce

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« Reply #9 on: <03-22-12/1920:21> »
Wouldn't it be easier to work in reverse?

Talismonger 'x' has some dragon reagents.  You can go after him directly; or you can use the material link he's got (since he has the reagents) for some ritual magic against the reagents.  Use reagents to zap reagents, so to speak.

Mirikon

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« Reply #10 on: <03-22-12/1933:38> »
Doesn't work like that. You would have to have some of the reagents yourself. And since most dragon telesma comes from dead dragons (since live ones tend to try and kill you for taking their tooth), unless you had some part of the dragon corpse, you wouldn't have a link to the reagents. So you'd need to track down the talismonger to get the telesma to get the link.

And really, sending people to kill them and their family/friends/associates/people-caught-in-the-blast-radius sends a pretty powerful message.
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JustADude

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« Reply #11 on: <03-22-12/2210:56> »
...(since live ones tend to try and kill you for taking their tooth)...

Or charge a ruddy fortune, which may almost be worse. ;D
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Bruce

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« Reply #12 on: <03-23-12/1116:36> »
Economically speaking, unless the attackers can drive the price of dragon-based telesma above what it's worth, all they're doing is enriching the talismongers lucky enough (or savvy enough) to survive.

Mirikon

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« Reply #13 on: <03-23-12/1259:43> »
Actually, they're attacking the supply chain, all over the world. Anyone dealing in dragon telesma (and some that don't, but get caught in the net) has a target on their back, and many (perhaps even most) have been killed. The ones that haven't are running, which means they aren't doing biz.
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Ajax

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« Reply #14 on: <03-23-12/2108:51> »
Never deal with a dragon. Also, never deal in dragon.
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