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Does alchemy suck?

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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #45 on: <09-22-18/1654:32> »
Combat Sense and Deflection are real nice for combat Buffs, Increase Reflexes downside is it doesn't stack well, Increase Attribute spells require decent Force, Illusions are a bad idea since they're too easily pierced. Ooooh, how does Mindnet (sp?) work if you use a preparation for it?_?
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Marcus

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« Reply #46 on: <09-22-18/2142:58> »
While the math behind alchemy sucks and if you spend enough karma in initiation etc it gets okay it is a really fun concept. I think that is 5e in a nut shell. Cool ideas backed by terrible math and rules.

One idea I’ve been toying with as a GM is a character who writes his preparation on toe tags and then ties them to objects. At the core I think it works. The stretch is getting them tied to the back of a throwing weapon. And then throwing them as an attack and triggering the preparation in the next pass. I don’t know if that would destroy the prep by the rules but I’ve been watching anime with ninjas and it’s a cool visual.

Edit to add the potion master being able to pour liquids over got me to wonder if it would work as a spray for explosive spray paint. A street ganger with magic tags.

After 4 books it's playable, and it even some advantages over normal magic
It's once we had the vault, the gloves, and the pocket it become viable.
Depending on your GMs opinions on magic bullets it's may even be strong.
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Chalkarts

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« Reply #47 on: <09-22-18/2331:46> »
I’m still building my library, I know what the vault does, what are the gloves and pocket?
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Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #48 on: <09-22-18/2356:48> »
While the math behind alchemy sucks and if you spend enough karma in initiation etc it gets okay it is a really fun concept. I think that is 5e in a nut shell. Cool ideas backed by terrible math and rules.

One idea I’ve been toying with as a GM is a character who writes his preparation on toe tags and then ties them to objects. At the core I think it works. The stretch is getting them tied to the back of a throwing weapon. And then throwing them as an attack and triggering the preparation in the next pass. I don’t know if that would destroy the prep by the rules but I’ve been watching anime with ninjas and it’s a cool visual.

Edit to add the potion master being able to pour liquids over got me to wonder if it would work as a spray for explosive spray paint. A street ganger with magic tags.

After 4 books it's playable, and it even some advantages over normal magic
It's once we had the vault, the gloves, and the pocket it become viable.
Depending on your GMs opinions on magic bullets it's may even be strong.

After 4 books with the right choices, some positive qualities and cool items its playable.  Still not as good as just taking spellcasting IMO, but playable.  Playable is a pretty low bar though unless you are in some serious cut throat min max games. Still for missions play as

Still not sure where to go on some of what to allow as preparations.  The toe tag seems pretty straight forward, attached to a thrown weapon it comes down to do I think it would destroy the tag in flight. Not sure about that as the tag is separate from the knife, but once you allow that what else does it open up for the PCs. Using a spray, I'm having a hard time seeing the difference from just  a liquid, I guess it gets atomized or something in the process of becoming a spray but I think the point of liquids being able to be drank or poured over a subject is that while preparations are fragile some symbolic level of what its from is determines how it can be used before being considered destroyed. As a example usig the food idea form above sandwich is a whole object, a bite out of it might break it.  But a sauce which is a liquid on the sandwich doesn't break in the same way if you only have injected part of it so far, otherwise the whole drinking a liquid prep thing wouldn't work. So a spray form liquid?  Or what about DMSO capsules?

Marcus

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« Reply #49 on: <09-23-18/0205:24> »
Capsule rounds work, no DMSO required, duration is still an issue.
Empty casing actually work.
Alter Ballistics works.
Arrows, darts, Bolts, Grenades, throwing knives all work
After those those things get a lot less certain.
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Jack_Spade

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« Reply #50 on: <09-23-18/0308:33> »
I’m still building my library, I know what the vault does, what are the gloves and pocket?

Gloves and Pockets are from Hard Targets
The gloves allow you to touch touch preparation without them going off
and the pocket allows you to store them protected from detection.
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Chalkarts

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« Reply #51 on: <09-23-18/0958:43> »
After contemplating the possibilities I think I actually want to put this guy on paper.  I’ll need to find out the SRM rules for pre-making and storing preparations.

I’m going to start a creation thread.

I’m very intrigued by Alchemy.
When I get see an underwhelming power or ability in a game I feel the need to figure out how to use it well and make it work.  Alchemy feels like a fun challenge.
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Mirikon

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« Reply #52 on: <09-23-18/1001:15> »
Throwing knife with a 'spell tag' on it like something from anime is a nice way to get your command word Fireball preparation somewhere that you can't reach.
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« Reply #53 on: <09-23-18/1019:43> »
I thought a good way to apply preparations would be to use stickers.  Graffiti artists like using postal stickers to draw on and put up.  I was thinking something similar except instead of art it’d be the runic script of his preparation.  Stick it to armor, walls, tables, anything.  Sticking it won’t hurt it.
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Mirikon

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« Reply #54 on: <09-23-18/1601:30> »
I thought a good way to apply preparations would be to use stickers.  Graffiti artists like using postal stickers to draw on and put up.  I was thinking something similar except instead of art it’d be the runic script of his preparation.  Stick it to armor, walls, tables, anything.  Sticking it won’t hurt it.
Sure it is. You just have to be able to get to the place you're sticking it, which isn't always convenient if you're trying to get someplace on the other side of a room with angry people who might want to shoot you. Also, a solid 'thunk' of a knife embedding in a wall will draw attention. Maybe even sucker a couple more targets into blast range before boom time.

Also, you I would TOTALLY allow someone to use a tag as a preparation, painting the preparation on the side of the building, just ready to go. That would be cool as hell, and just leaving your signature (both in paint and in magic) around for someone to track would be enough downside to prevent abuse. And once the preparation either went off or 'aged out', the tag would still be there, just nonmagical. Would be a kick-ass way to use timed preparations, actually.
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Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #55 on: <09-23-18/1846:59> »
After contemplating the possibilities I think I actually want to put this guy on paper.  I’ll need to find out the SRM rules for pre-making and storing preparations.

I’m going to start a creation thread.

I’m very intrigued by Alchemy.
When I get see an underwhelming power or ability in a game I feel the need to figure out how to use it well and make it work.  Alchemy feels like a fun challenge.

I've used it as a supplement to a character never as its main juice.  I'm interested in changing that.  Your idea of buffs I'm not sure of by the math, not the potential character idea.  It sounds like a interesting idea, but the buff will last minutes, odds are you are triggering it your first pass maybe while grabbing cover you trigger your first, you give Street Sam X +4 dice in Y.  The next 5 minutes he is getting 1.3 hits more in that action, 3 passes after you activate it the fight is done and while he has the dice he isn't using them.  It is like the chaotic world or whatever ideas above if you net 2 hits is -2 dice that potent of an action when it means only 66% of the time it did anything on a action. A fireball that does 3 damage in the end drops them a die and did 3 damage. Is it useful, yup. Is it the best use of your action?  I'm not sure.

As a reference what I had done on the character who used alchemy was for a character named invisible Drone, he used focused concentration to maintain a magic fingers spell, when combat started he'd grab cover and trigger a clairvoyance preparation. He'd then control and shoot his AK or pistol with magic fingers/clairvoyance. Occasionally he might pop a improved reaction preparation.  My reaction was low enough I didn't have to worry about the preparations force and the +X dice helped doge while the stat increase guaranteed a second pass. Improved reflexes spell might if I got a really good roll make it so I could get 3 passes but it was rare enough that the extra dodge dice was better.  If crap was really going south i'd pop a combat sense preparation.  My main combat force was my gun skill, most of my utility was either spirits or the spells I cast through spell casting.  But alchemy allowed me to up my combat game with my gun quite a bit.

Chalkarts

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« Reply #56 on: <09-23-18/2158:31> »
I’ve been contemplating a battle plan.
I know they only last minutes for the sustained. 
If I were obnoxious I would make heal spells in preparations as clown noses and stat boosts in neck ruffles, and improved reflexes in poofy wigs. Just to be clear, I am obnoxious.

But I wouldn’t want to blow them all. I’d try to stay in a place to get maximum LOS of my group.  That way, if I’m not shooting with my own buffs helping, I’ll be able to activate their buffs or heals and call out leadership actions as needed.  For combat I’ll be shooting(haven’t decided what), counterspelling, and commanding my summons.
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