[zekim]

One issue that I have been having is subtracting 10 after each initiative pass.  Actually, it has been two issue:

1) It is a pain to do the subtraction for 10+ NPCs.
2) Some of my players lose track as to which initiative pass we are on. For example, as I count down, if they go at 31, they will often try to go again at 21 as they did the subtraction too soon.

What I have found to work is instead of subtracting 10, I add 10 to the bottom of the initiative pass.
Pass 1 goes from 41 to 1
Pass 2 goes from 41 to 11
Pass 3 goes from 41 to 21
Pass 4 goes from 41 to 31
Pass 5 goes from 41 to 41

This lets me use the Combat Pad from Paizo to track initiative without having to do constant subtractions.  I just have a marker that moves up 10 spots every initiative pass.
 

[martinchaen]

That seems pretty valid; I like it. One question: How do you deal with interrupt actions and anything that affect your initiative score (one way or another)?

[Mirikon]

It might help if you do a better way of bookkeeping for initiative. For instance, a dry-erase board makes it easy to keep track of things. Also, I've found that if you group mooks into a single initiative, it goes quicker. Say Gangers 1-6 all have the same init dice and bonus, because they're generic gangers. Much easier to have them all on the same pass, and run with it. Breaks down a little on interrupt actions, but can still work without too much trouble.

[zekim]

That seems pretty valid; I like it. One question: How do you deal with interrupt actions and anything that affect your initiative score (one way or another)?

The intent of the rules doesn't change.  The only change is that the bottom of the order rises instead of everyone falling.

For rules that state that a character can not do an interrupt action if it "drops his initiative below 0", change to " drops his initiative below the current red line".

Using the combat pad, it is easy to move an entry up and down the list.  Once a character is at or below the red line, they can no longer act in the current CT.  This saves lots of subtraction and rewriting of initiative scores at the end of each initiative pass.

[zekim]

It might help if you do a better way of bookkeeping for initiative. For instance, a dry-erase board makes it easy to keep track of things. Also, I've found that if you group mooks into a single initiative, it goes quicker. Say Gangers 1-6 all have the same init dice and bonus, because they're generic gangers. Much easier to have them all on the same pass, and run with it. Breaks down a little on interrupt actions, but can still work without too much trouble.

Do all of that already.   

The subtracting 10 at that end of each initiative pass is a slow down that I don't like.   While all of the bad guys might start off the same, they quickly start to spread out due to injuries, interrupt actions, and other items that impact initiative.

 When I tossed the responsibility on to the players to keep track of their own initiative (so I only have to worry about the NPCs), I've started running into problems where they lose track as to which initiative pass we are currently on or they miss their turn as they were not paying attention as I was doing the count down.

So, instead of subtracting 10, I simply raise the "red line" by 10 for each pass.  All of the other rules stay the same.

[Mirikon]

Well, blame the nostalgia crowd for that change.

[Crunch]

Well, blame the nostalgia crowd for that change.

Yep. We'll totally take the "blame" for a system that works really well.

[zekim]

Well, blame the nostalgia crowd for that change.

Don't need to blame anyone, I like the way that initiative is done.   I was just running into a slight logistics hiccup that has an easy solution that doesn't involving changing the rules.

[Reaver]

yea, what you are doing works... and if it helps your group better tract their turns, GO FOR IT!!!

On a side note, I group NPCs by threat rating..... 

all NPCS at threat rating 1 go in <this> initiative.
all NPCs at threat rating 2 go in <that> initiative.


saves me a ton of dice rolling (call me lazy)

[Michael Chandra]

Mooks got a shared initiative roll anyway, don't they? I just roll them in advance.

[zekim]

Mooks got a shared initiative roll anyway, don't they? I just roll them in advance.

Only if the mooks have the same initiative score.  Take the first major combat of Manhunt from Sprawl Wilds.  The are three different types of bad guys, each with a different initiative score and number of dice.

Even with mooks with the same initiative score/dice, damage, interrupt actions, and trick shots will cause some mooks to diverge from the average score.

Again, I'm fine with that.  My only quibble is the time it takes to subtract 10 from the initiative scores.

[Mirikon]

How does it take more time to subtract 10 than it does to add 10?

[Crunch]

How does it take more time to subtract 10 than it does to add 10?

I think erasing and rewriting is the issue.

Would anyone slap me if I suggested using Roman Numerals? Erasing the first X from XXXII is quicker than erasing the 3 in 32 and rewriting 2 in its place.

[martinchaen]

*slaps Crunch*

Nah, that's actually not a bad idea either...

[zekim]

How does it take more time to subtract 10 than it does to add 10?

1 mathematical operation to increase the "red line"
vs
3 to 10 mathematical operations to decrease the initiative for the NPCs (depending on the number of NPCs and how spread out their Initiative has become)