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SR5 - Astral Perception and Tracking

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Sphinx

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« on: <01-10-20/2354:06> »
Suppose a magician casts a sustained spell on a small object, such as Improved Invisibility on a pebble. Now suppose that the magician drops the invisible pebble into a wageslave's briefcase, and the wageslave carries it across town. There's a link between the magician and the object with the sustained spell that anyone with astral senses can follow using Astral Tracking (SR5 p.315).

Questions:
  • This works in both directions, right?
    (A) Another magician could read the astral signature on the pebble and track it back to its source? (Yes, this is the basic definition of astral tracking.)
    (B) While sustaining the spell, the spellcaster could project astrally and track the link to the pebble? (I think so, although the rules only mention tracking a signature to its source, not the source to a signature.)
  • If someone assenses the spellcaster, is it immediately obvious that they're sustaining a spell, considering that the enspelled object is elsewhere? (I think this ought to require some hits on an assensing test — probably three, equivalent to reading a signature.)
  • If someone assenses the briefcase, can they tell that there's a sustained spell on an object inside it? If so, would it matter if the container were larger? E.g., a suitcase, a crate, a vehicle, a building? (I think no, you can't assense something inside a container, you need to view it directly.)
  • Is the link only visible at the endpoints, or can it be discovered somewhere in between? (I think you can only pick up the thread at either end, not in the middle.)
  • Is the link a straight line, or does it follow whatever route the endpoints took as they moved away from each other? (I think it must meander, or Astral Tracking would be easier and faster.)
What do you think?
« Last Edit: <01-10-20/2357:57> by Sphinx »

Xenon

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« Reply #1 on: <01-11-20/0442:56> »
This works in both directions, right?
It is clear that an observer can notice the lingering astral signature and that it can be compared with the magician if they ever meet later.

It is clear that an observer can notice the astral signature of the magician and that it can be compared with the the lingering astral signature at a later point.

It also clear that an observer can use astral tracking from the lingering astral signature at both where the spell was cast and at the target of the spell to track down the magician responsible for it.


What you are asking is if you can use astral tracking on the magician to find any and all sources of magic he left in the world. The answer to this is no.


If someone assenses the spellcaster, is it immediately obvious that they're sustaining a spell, considering that the enspelled object is elsewhere?
If an observer assenses the spellcaster it is not even immediately obvious (= that you don't even require a test to notice it) that the subject is awakened in the first place (this require that you both actually take the time to observe the living aura of the subject as well as that you you get at least one net hit on the reading test).

One thing that would be immediately obvious (= not even require a test to notice) is if the subject currently have an active spell attached to its aura (as the active spell would have a tangible astral form that is immediately obvious). But to find out if the spell originates from the subject or if it was left there by someone else you need to either compare their respective astral signatures (manage to read an astral signature require that you take the time to observe both the astral form of the spell as well as the living aura and that you get several net hits on the reading tests) or astral tracking (observe the astral form, successfully read the astral signature of the spell and then successfully use astral tracking to find its source).


If someone assenses the briefcase, can they tell that there's a sustained spell on an object inside it?
No, while physical object might appear as intangible shadows of their former self for an astral observer, they are still 100% opaque and 100% block astral perception from sensing whatever is inside (or behind them). 

A dual natured entity (such as a magician using astral perception) would need to first physically open the briefcase.

A wholly astral entity (such as a magician using astral projection) could potentially specifically push his awareness inside the briefcase without issues (unless there is some sort of magic ward or other astral form protecting it).

Also, note that if the briefcase is carried though an astral form (such as a ward) then the astral form (for example the ward in this place) and the spell sustained on the pebble inside the briefcase will cause an astral intersection (which will disrupt the spell sustained on the pebble, the astral form it was pushed through - or, on a tie, both).


Is the link only visible at the endpoints, or can it be discovered somewhere in between?
The link can be picked up at two locations.
1. The location where the spell was cast (if you drive by casting a spell then this location will be inside the van - if you cast the spell while in an ally you will leave a lingering signature in the ally) 
2. The target destination location of the spell (if you cast it on a pebble then it will linger on the pebble - if you cast an AoE spell in an office then you will leave a lingering signature in the office).

There is no link in-between. And there is no link to be picked up at the source itself (the magician that cast the spell).


Is the link a straight line
Book doesn't tell. But considering using astral tracking to find the source is a time consuming endeavor that at the minimum take one hour to complete (and where partial success does not seem to bring you closer to your target than a total failure) I would say that it is more complicated than following a straight line from the lingering signature back to whatever was responsible for it.
« Last Edit: <01-11-20/0508:49> by Xenon »

Sphinx

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« Reply #2 on: <01-11-20/1317:31> »
What you are asking is if you can use astral tracking on the magician to find any and all sources of magic he left in the world. The answer to this is no.

I know a spell leaves an astral signature for several hours after the spell ends (Astral Signatures, SR5, p.312), but in this case I'm interested in a spell that is still being actively sustained by the spellcaster.

"Active spells are linked to their casters, spirits are linked to their summoners, astrally projecting magicians are linked to their physical bodies, and foci and magical lodges are linked to the magicians who activated them. Awakened entities who assense the astral signature of these astral forms can track their links through the astral plane back to their sources." (Astral Tracking, SR5, p.315).

To clarify: Do you think that this link can only be tracked in one direction (from the astral form back to its source), or can an active link be traced in the other direction, as from a magician to a spell that they're currently sustaining?

Xenon

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« Reply #3 on: <01-11-20/1344:55> »
To clarify: Do you think that this link can only be tracked in one direction (from the astral form back to its source), or can an active link be traced in the other direction, as from a magician to a spell that they're currently sustaining?
To clarify I think they (active spells, projecting magicians, focus, medicine lodges etc) can only be tracked back to its source (the responsible magician)

I don't think you can go to the source (the magician) and from there track all active magic (active spells, projecting magicians, focus, medicine lodges etc) that he or she might have scattered around the world.

easl

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« Reply #4 on: <01-11-20/1841:51> »
I know a spell leaves an astral signature for several hours after the spell ends (Astral Signatures, SR5, p.312), but in this case I'm interested in a spell that is still being actively sustained by the spellcaster.

"Active spells are linked to their casters, spirits are linked to their summoners, astrally projecting magicians are linked to their physical bodies, and foci and magical lodges are linked to the magicians who activated them. Awakened entities who assense the astral signature of these astral forms can track their links through the astral plane back to their sources." (Astral Tracking, SR5, p.315).

To clarify: Do you think that this link can only be tracked in one direction (from the astral form back to its source), or can an active link be traced in the other direction, as from a magician to a spell that they're currently sustaining?
For SR6, the relevant pages are 160-161 and the text sounds very similar.  One key phrase is mentioned about Cleansing is: "the player scrubs traces of a single spell or other magical effect from the astral plane." As a GM, I would interpret that to mean that casting a spell leaves a mark on the astral. But you can erase that mark. And if you do that for a sustained spell, it no longer leaves a mark on the astral and it can't be tracked.

So I'd also say that the 'decay time' for a spell to be tracked counts for sustained spells too; you cast them. That act perturbs the astral. But the perturbation goes away. Throwing the pebble into the water causes a ripple. But once it's in, it can sink to the bottom or be moved around by the current without any more ripples.

Xenon

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« Reply #5 on: <01-11-20/1951:11> »
As a GM, I would interpret that to mean that casting a spell leaves a mark on the astral. But you can erase that mark.
All active magic have an actual tangible astral form on the astral plane, and this astral form have the astral signature of the responsible magician. As long as the spell is active there is also a link between the spell and the magician. This is not something a magician may choose to erase.

Once the spell end an intangible astral 'shadow' of the previous spell will still linger on the astral plane for awhile before it fully fade into the background and disappear. This 'shadow' still hold the astral signature of the magician that cast it and it can still also be used for astral tracking. This is the part that a magician can choose to erase.